Marchionne Comments - Production Numbers and "SUV"

The problem with this debate is by in large we in the west are not the future customer, in fcat Faerrari is :stuck" at 8 k units sellign to us, and more rpactical proiducts like the lusso octs suv money to develop but barely sell..
Caddillac and others sell more luxury vehicles in China than they do in the U.Sa, not to mention europe.
Less peopel in China can drive a "sprtscar" than here. Less poeple in China want a 2 seater 2 door than here, and less people in China drive fast than here(which is practicaly zero). China buys badges for status, Chinese dont wnat to suffer in the high staus branded car because it s small and unseable, easier to just buy a high status branded rolls bently etc.

Ferraris by in larege are bougth as status symbols, well maybe 10% of people in ROW buy to use performance. China is even more badge status concious than Europe USA. How do you sell more Ferrari products to chinese, simple build the ones they will buy. viola the SUV.

To me a ferrari SUV just makes a lot more sense than the slow selling lusso, and n a lusso was always touted as an suv alternative,

As to the brand being "sold out" that happened under luca long ago when all ferraris became "useable" nee boring at road speeds.. The simple fact is most ferraris today are nothing more than a stylish noisy lexus with a horsey on the hood and fenders, to be used for posing going to the club or valet parked at a resteraunt, while the owners thirll themslevs with the idea that not only have they arrived, they can now drive a race car by occasionaly going over maybe 120 for 1 second..

At least the suv is honest about what it is. I am willing to bet that the performance of the suv will in every performance parameter well exceed what 99% of new ferrari owners ever put their cars through. Plus in an SUv you can take road trips, take your friends long and impress them too, and probably even fly though some sand dsunes as well as drive it through the winter. Also since its unlikely to be an "investemt" no need to keep miles off, which meas the suv will probably be driven more and harder than the sportscars.


Plus volume form the SUv migth give ferrari the courage to start making some real drivers cars again, and selling them to actual customers as opposed to waiting in line lemmings looking for their next investment/flip.

Frankly if you figure Luca denuded the brand of real driver authenticity, the suv is not only the logical conclusion, but a bretah of fresh air in terms of honesty, and may well lead to an expanded lineup where there is more choice including cars for those of us who you know um like to just drive and couldnt give a crap about plastic sheilds and deviated sticting to go with fake cosmetic cf..

I mean given how bogus ferrari already is, how much worse can and suv be. Hey maybe itll be an awesome suv and ferrai will be the leader there.

 

The problem is what is the goal here? Profitability? In which case there is a lot to be said about using the 488 platform for a Dino, by and large the tooling costs will be less and the investment less than developing a bespoke SUV from scratch. Upping production? 15k units? Again will an SUV sell in larger numbers than a Dino priced at 911 levels? Doubtful.

What it seems to me is happening is a one method suits all approach, Porsche did it so it must work. Is it really working for Maserati, a brand FAR more suited to a SUV than Ferrari, debateable I think. for me the Levante ranks dead last on the SUV list, I'd put a Trackhawk ahead of it by virtue of it being the same thing but faster and a truer reflection of its brand.

I find it hard to believe Ferrari could crank out more than 1000 bespoke SUV's in fact we face the prospect of the thing being made elsewhere, especially if its based on the Jeep platform and frankly I cant see it being based on anything else purely for economic reasons.

Ferrari doesn't need an SUV to make drivers cars, it does that already, what it does need in my opinion is something to take on the 911, its telling how far the 488 has moved on from the 911 price wise. If you look back to 1995 the 355 and 993 turbo was reasonably closely priced. The same cannot be said of the 488 vs 991 911 pricing.

 

What's the goal here? Are you joking?

Sergio is an accountant who is retiring in a few years. His pension and stock value will be judged on how he leaves the company financially.

That's what's going on.

 

Are you trolling? Because this is ridiculous on its face. Ferrari makes high performance automobiles, and they continue to improve, as the official Fiorano lap times show.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/what-are-the-fastest-ferraris-to-lap-fiorano-circuit#1

You expect Ferrari to be stuck at the 512 BB level forever? My 456M - with an automatic! - would leave you for dead at the starting line and never look back. And I'd be comfortable doing it. lol

 

Dude you know that the buyer of my Modena, when new.. likely paid $250k for it as a grey market car AND THEN didn't drive faster than 55.. ? I doubt the new buyer in 1987 knew how to drive their car above 55 but loved to wear the white linen suit just like on Miami Vice. Not a new phenomenon. Ferrari has been a "badge" status item for the last few decades.

 

Been having this debate with Boxerman for a while myself. I had on occasion thought he was trolling as well. I know many people that track the latest offerings quite often.

Can't we all acknowledge that Ferrari is a big tent? Some track them, some buy em to put in storage forever, others use it as a fashion accessory, others use them as GTs, some are purely in it for business reasons. I don't understand the need for anybody to denigrate on what any person chooses to (or not) do with their cars. It's their money after all.

***

As far as an SUV, I'm not the first to say the Macan/Panamera didn't stop Porsche from making the 918 or 911 GT2 RS (just set the fastest production car record on the 'Ring). The 10 SUVs MBs make didn't stop the AMG GT-R (not to mention the spanking they are giving Ferrari last 4 years in F1) The Stelvio didn't stop the Quadrifoglio. I'm sure the Urus won't dilute the next gen Huracan/Aventador

 

I have no problem in Ferrari making an SUV. Just make the best one in the world.

But Ferrari is no longer an "exclusive" sports car maker. If you don't admit that then the red koolaid you drank worked.

 

I would say 'yes' and 'no' I see it more as they will have 2 cohorts. The 'rich' and the 'ultra-rich'
The former in line with your typical Porsche buyer the latter being the of the 'chosen ones' that get the next La Ferrari.

Ford by no means is exclusive, but I know of some pretty heavy hitters that weren't even considered for the new GT.

 

Well I will say yes and no to that.

These super "super" cars for the ultra wealthy are just garage Queen money printers. No one drives them. The LaFerrari breaks just sitting there if the battery isn't charged constantly.

That's the perfect definition of a garage queen if I ever heard one. It's literally chained to a garage. To be a sports car it needs to be driven and not merely changed hands.

 

or like this?

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Your posts are unreadable.
Your logic is just as garbled as your text.

 

I get what you're saying, and you're probably right - but it's all function of that balancing act. Ferrari is a well known global brand now, with the corresponding demand. Make too much, and well - you're Porsche. Make too little and you and I will be on a thread with somebody complaining they didn't get on 'the list' or it will take 1 year to get their car.

 

I don't know anyone choose a Levante over the competition.

 

Sure my question remains? 15k units, 20k units. Profitability per unit? My point with the Levante is here was a grand idea to great an exclusive SUV using an exclusive brand ad yet the idea has flopped because the end product to me is nothing more than a Jeep in a fancy dress. I once incurred the wrath of a Maserati sales person when I was aksed "Sir don't you think the front styling is mean and aggressive" My answer "Perhaps but I see a lot of Jeep in the frontal styling".

Sure, Ferrari could create a SUV but at what price point $400k? Unless serious volume is being pushed it would be hard to recoup the bespoke development costs with say 2500 units a year IF a bespoke chassis was used.

Exclusive is subjective but to me Ferrari is exclusive, one look at Porsche production numbers would confirm that.

 

It will most likely look like a high lift F12 with a Lusso rear end. Plus a hybrid option for the green folk. And a large center display. Don't forget to go with the grey Alcantara interior and racing seats so it looks more track ready in the grocery store parking lot.

 

The Ferrari SUV is a huge mistake and I think we all know that.

What makes no sense is the claim for the "need to make the company more profitable". Firstly they said , that the main aim is to make the waiting time for new cars shorter. That is exactly why Marcione wanted to make production bigger - from 7000 to 10000 cars per year. OK, that was not great, it will affect the exclusivity, but at least it sounded logical. And I now wonder... if they had problems manufacturing all the cars, that they are selling why the f**k do they need to launch a new model anyway? It doesn't seem, that the company has financial problems at all...

And having that in mind, the SUV will be (at least for me) the beginning of the end for Ferrari. From an inconic automaker with exlusive and unique cars, it will become just a cash-mashine like Porsche. Now when you say "I drive a Ferrari" everyone knows you drive a special, fast and great looking supercar, even if we are talking about the Lusso. HOwever, if you say I drive a Porsche, people ask "a real one or a Cayenne?".

Yes, Lamborghini are launching a SUV too, but Lamborghinis for sure are not having the same heritage and "specialness" as Ferraris, let's be honest about that. They are great cars, but they are much different than Ferraris in a lot of ways.

Marcionne is the worse thing happened to Ferrari from a LONG time ago. Montezemolo was the real successor of Enzo - Ferrari was his life and Enzo himself trusted him. He respected the brand's heritage and its customers. And he is the person, who made Ferrari such a profitable company. When Marcione came, Ferrari was already (and still is) a super strong brand. He removed Montezemolo because of his own pride and I am sure that he is also one of the main reasons that the F1 team is not doing so well also. And this is very important. I have personally seen that several times during different Ferrari events - people inside Ferrari are just afraid of him. That makes all employees in the F1 team much more nervious and they are making more mistakes. Montezemolo they respected, but Marcionne they are afraid of. He is a tyrant. No one refuses his contributionfor saving Fiat, but Ferrari is a different kind of an animal.

Ferrari is not desperately needing a SUV in its portfolio. And therefore I think making it is an absolute nonsense and will damage the brand hard.

 

Sales figures of the Bentayga:-

Europe
2016 - 988
2017 Jan-Aug - 1041

USA
2016 - 884
2017 Jan-Sep - 565

 

Your Welcome

 

Sales figures of the Levante-

Europe
2016 - 2478
2017 Jan-Aug - 4194

USA
2016 - 1917
2017 Jan-Sep - 3919

 

Technom3 said make the "SUV Electric".


Ferrari purists are horrified at the prospect of a FUV / SUV vehicle and true Gear / Petrolheads dislike Electric / Hybrid vehicles.

Therefore the best solution is to make an Electric / Hybrid FUV / SUV model that 'Greenies' can buy and for sports car lovers the V8 and V12 models.

A win win situation for both parties.

Long term the ICE will be banned around the World, hence like them or hate them, SUVs are destined to become the dominant vehicle Worldwide.