Mark Webber Thread

All this talk about JPM being an over-rated baby, and Button with his issues, I felt the need to make a move in another direction. That is why I am officially declaring the Mark Webber Bandwagon to be rolling! I've liked this guy since he first broke through, and I think he's got the gray matter to fight for top honors. He's my horse for '04 and beyond. So who else wants on board?

 

Me!!
Totally concur - it will be interseting to see how he goes in a competitive (?) bit of equipment. But I think he has what it takes.

 

I totally agree. He is the complete package. I just hope Williams is up to it.

 

I've been with him since I saw him in his first F1 race in Australia in 2002, driving a Minardi, and come home with 5th place!

Amazing to think that that is still his best position to date in F1!

 

yeah, great dude. let's just hope he doesn't flip it.

http://www.endurancesportscar.com/photo/clrflip.mpg

 

Great link, Ash! Thank you. Also, thank you everyone for ignoring my typo--you know I meant to say '05, not '04. But I'm still writing '03 on my cheques, so...

What's interesting is his career seems to be on a more traditional, gradual upward path. Minardi---> Jag---> Williams. It goes against the trend of starting at the top and gradually working backwards.

 

Every good story needs a villain, so I'm happy to take the antiposition and declare him overrated.

Jack, remember the Go Kart race we did in March? The guy who taught us about ideal line etc? Remember his words: "Just don't drive like Mark Webber!" Granted that guy was not the source of all wisdom.

My horse for 05 and beyond: The Iceman

 

Maybe what he really meant was "Don't drive a Jaguar!"

Here are the two reasons I'm undecided on Kimi right now:
1--I'm not sure what the environment will be like at McLaren. I know that this
is their usual M.O., but I question how much they'll be fighting each other rather
than the rest of the drivers, which leads me to

2--The bloom is off Kimi's rose for me a bit. It's always been "Iceman" this, or
"Iceman" that. But remember how he behaved (mis-behaved, shall we?) when
things turned south for his team.

The bottom line is, a lot is going to be revealed this season about McLaren, Juan Pablo Montoya and Kimi Raikkonen. How well can the team rebound, how good these two drivers are with legit teammate competition, and how well they play with others.

Now, give me back my thread, please

 

Can't just yet, since you touched a nerve. The Iceman lost his cool this year, no doubt. But so did Hakkinen behind the bushes in Monza. It is not the desperation after a game over that I care about. The Iceman got his name IMHO for his raw speed and cool car control. Remember Imola a few years back when he drove the Sauber and all of a sudden held the steering wheel in his hands, disconnected? And he managed to keep control. That's the Iceman.

But I do have my question marks about him as well: He didn't do anything magic at the Championship closing last year and he looked awfully bad against JPM in the Interlagos race this year. So there are some real cracks in the Iceman's armour.

Regardless it will be awesome to see these two battle it out as well as it will be great to see whether Webber deserves the praise you guys heap upon him. I'm just worried his team mate will be Pizzaboy and he will look great against that clown automatically. There is your thread back btw.

 

Agreed on all counts. Unfortunately, we've moved beyond the days of when a superior driver can manhandle an inferior car up the order. I imagine it's frustrating when these drivers realize that their cars are only going to be so good, and there's nothing they can do about it. So, what's the countdown to F1 number now?

 

Oi Oi Oi

Cheers
Kevin

 

I think Mark Webber is a well-rounded driver and this vaults him into the likely set of young drivers who would take over when Schumi calls it quits.

The drivers in my watch list are: Raikkonen, Button, Alonso, Montoya and Webber.

Here's how I rate them - My opinions only - so dont flame me

Race speed:
Raikkonen is the top of the list though closely followed by Button and Montoya. I think Webber has never been tested against a top rank driver so his true speed is in doubt. I think over the last two years Webber made a better qualifier than racer but I think this is mostly due to the car being sh*t.

Qualifying:
Here is a function of one lap speed, ability to gird one's loins and pull out a fab lap. Montoya is my pick - when he is in his game, he is a shoo-in for Pole as long as the car is good. Alonso and Raikkonen are guilty of occassionally screwing up qualifying and starting at the back of the grid

Race Consistency:
Ability to keep at max attack speed over long durations of the car. For this I would rate Raikkonen, Button and Alonso equally the best. All three are capable of generating metronomic lap times under race conditions. Montoya is sometimes wayward. Webber is unproven - he has hardly finished a race thanks to Shaguar

Overtaking:
Ability to pass other drivers and do so without too many penalties
Monty is of-course the best at this - he can make passes where few others would attempt. But he attempts more of this on the ragged edge and therefore is prone to entanglements and possible drive thru penalties that hurt him.

My pick here is Button - he can pass pretty well and rarely is involved in an issue on thetrack. Raikkonnen is close behind. Alonso is occassionally over-aggressive but he is pretty good overall.

Ability to set-up the car:
Set up the car to maximise the race pace during the race weekend and significant testing to get to know all parameters of the car and fgure our how to optimize the overall performance.

I dont think this is a very strong point for any of these drivers.

Raikonnen, Alonso and Montoya are all instinct drivers - meaning they adapt to how the car drives but are not that bothered in testing to get the car to do some of the work for them. Not this comment is by comparison to say a Michael Schumacher. These drivers depend heavily on their race engineers to interpret their comments and tune the car.

Webber shows a lot of interest in this area and I would say that Button is good at getting the max of their car. So these two would be the top in this category

Ability to get the team behind you:
Calls for motivation, leadership, ability to support the team (from top to bottom) in down times.
Extremely strong point for Webber. you get the sense that the team will go thru fire for him. i think Raikkonen would be also strong in this category - he has not gone mouthing off too much despite the numerous issues Mclaren had this year.

Despite the Buttongate this year, I think Button has the ability to mend fences with BAR

Alonso is sort of non-descript here. Montoya is the worst of the lot - he is petulant child at best.

 

Speedy Sam, I agree with all your points, great analysis!

Except Button and metronomic laps: What the hell happened in Monza? Or was that Ferrari simply being smarter in pit strategy? Can't remember exactly, but from fading memory I recall he let that one slip through his fingers.

Other than that agreed on all points. It also goes to show how great Schumacher really is. He scores in all your criteria. Also shows what an also run Rubens is IMHO.

 

I'm undecided on Webber.....I just don't see what the big deal is. He has yet to really prove himself. (Please don't start with the Minardi first points in Australia a few years back...that was luck and everyone knows it...)
I think Williams gets it right only half of the time when it comes to drivers....

Case in point.....Zanardi...Frentzen....Montoya.....R.Schumacher.....

All good rivers on their day....or in other series...but none are the complete package...Webber isn't either.
Hmmm....maybe I am decided on Webber....

hps

 

Webber is also still a big questionmark in my book. This year, providing he gets a teammate of some statue, will be make or break.

 

If I remember correctly, this is Peter Dumbreck flipping out.

 

Don't forget that Zanardi arrived for the crapwagon stage of Williams life. Maybe it didn't matter, but the car definitely sucked.

 

What can I say about Webber...

He had some great runs with Jaguar and Minardi and I remember him doing 2 or 3 unbelievable qualifying finish. Yes he's fast and doesn't make many mistakes.
But he still hasn't proven himself as a top driver. We will see how the season goes and what he can bring to the team.
All I can say if its Pizzonia his teammate, MW will have to watch out because Pizzaboy isn't going to make himself look like a fool a 2nd time.
If its Nick Heidfeld his teammate, I think it will be very close between them in terms of points.

 

Give us a break, he's all we've got until someone realises how good Briscoe is.

 

MW has not proven himself. I think he is overrated and lacks the killer instinct and consistency to win under race condition. He's one of those great textbook drivers but lacks the extra special talent needed for a WDC.

 

I found his use of words to be quite surprising, considering the position he is now in. However, Webber has never shown much restraint in the past when giving his views on Pizzonia either.

 

bah, very limited context. it's just news. people with nothing better to do making **** up and getting paid to do it.

consider the front-page news today, "LLEYTON HEWITT BUYS A FERRARI".

like wow. for a guy who's earned a gazillion dollars in tennis and purchased some of the most expensive domestic real-estate in south australia, the papers couldn't think of anything more interesting happening on the planet than hewitt's car?

i didn't even read it, news is dull. just got an SMS from some guy who knows i like ferrari's who thought i'd be interested. hmmm.

 

I'm no Webber fan, but his words don't offend me. Pizzonia is not worthy a Williams seat and he knows it. Still hoping Quick Nick gets that seat.

 

I agree.

 

I agree. I like Weber but he really hasn't done much. I wish he was a little more easy to read. For example, he seemed to be pretty complacent and not outspoken when with Jag, who really should have improved at least an inch in their wasted time. He didn't really promise better results and though I was only in grade school when Senna was powered by Ford and in Mika's last year, I don't remember them complaining too much about lack of a competitive car. Heck, even Hill made the most of it when he went to Arrows. I really don't understand Weber's great qualifying performances, Jag falling apart, and then Mark just kind of disapearing nor promising a better finish, ( could be just poor US coverage. ) When Mark wins a few races, I'd really like to see him do a less harsh like JPM boast he will be champion one day, but he seems waaayyy to much of a corporate team player.

If Mark would become a champion, I think it would be good for the sport. His "normal" personality and obviously his roots with Minardi would seem to shine a little more than JPM and Kimi appearing to be crybabies despite the fact they've been at such historical teams and put on such high regard since their entrance into F1.

I hope Pizzaboy isn't asked to do a few laps in that 205 mph BMW M5. Here is another guy who was a rookie with sharp promise, but looks totally lost in F1. I would say its too bad, but given the harsh words from his teammates, maybe its true.

RocketBoy