Yes but Webber has already shown he is capable of taking out Vettel ... having both cars in the kitty litter is worse than Webber not being able to fight back to second. BTW: Webber's pace is not that much behind Vettel. Apparently Webber got 2nd on the grid WITHOUT KERS! Plus Mark would have been sacked already if all those bad starts were really his fault. OR were we really just watching the difference KERS makes to acceleration? Pete
So you believe it's true that Webber would be fired if he was really as bad as his starts show, but you do not believe that Webber would be fired for willfully taking out his teammate, and instead Red Bull have decided to de-tune his car somehow to make sure he can't be competitive with Vettel? And despite Webber being more than happy to criticize the team and whine, he has never discovered the true nature of this disadvantage he's been given and believes he just isn't performing? That sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory to me. It's much more realistic to believe what I think is an obvious truth - Webber just is an inferior talent compared to Vettel. As for the starting thing - well, some guys suck in the rain. Some guys suck at passing. Some guys are so overly aggressive they can be counted on to crash. Some guys can't make their tires last. Some guys can't put in a fast qualifying lap. Why would be outside the bounds of possibility that some guys suck at starting from a dig?
I knew it was a conspiracy! Read the article below, McLaren was clearly in on it!!! They admitted their software caused the problem! pitpass - McLaren issues statement re ECU Seriously, can we put the conspiracy theory to rest now? Mark
McLaren have publicly apologized to Webs for their faulty part. On another note, I found a pic of Webber's KERS for you all to enjoy. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Totally agree, never said otherwise. But while he is useless at starts there are bad starts and then there are loaded Kenworth truck starts If all that Webber can produce is Kenworth truck starts he has no place in F1, for any team. I don't believe he is completely responsible. Pete
Here's a pic of Vettel's KERS so all ya'll have a point of comparison to Webber's unit: Image Unavailable, Please Login
I hear from a reliable person he is linking up with Porsche as a works driver for the Endurance rounds (Le Mans etc) potentially from 2014/15
Interesting indeed. I seem to recall getting yelled at when I opined that "failed" F1 drivers often wind up in tintops. Good way to extend your career I guess....... Cheers, Ian
Luck has nothing to do with it. The teams ensure their number 1's get the best car ... fair enough. Pete
Nonsense. They're both in identical - homologated - tubs. The early one's are often tested to destruction. Subsequent versions (the ones they're in now) are tested, but more lightly. However, both (+ spares) must pass the same tests. Then the guys build the cars. They'll use the exact same parts and engineering/aero will tell 'em the starting setup. Invariably, identical at the start of the W/E. The jockeys may then diverge on setup, but there is no way Marks guys prepare an "inferior" car to Seb's. Doesn't happen. OK, occasionally, they only have "one new spec wing", or whatever, but that's; a - Unusual b - Something to do with Crazy-Helmut. TBH, I find the implication that one car is somehow "better" than the other to be a little insulting to the guys that build 'em. Cheers, Ian
I think we have a miss-understanding again. We know that Mark's car did not have a functioning KERS, we know they often use the number 2 to test new parts OR if they, as you stated, have only one improved part the number 1 gets it. Therefore: The teams ensure their number 1's get the best car. Many of you are so stuck up on the incorrect belief that the WCC means more to the teams than the WDC you can't see the fact that the team is all working to make their number 1 win the race. If the number 2 gets second that is a bonus, but the number of points the number 1 gets is their priority. Again sponsorship nets far more money than Bernie's WCC results funds AND the team wants to have the fastest car and that is the car that pilots the WDC to his victory. If your car wins the WDC you will likely have done well enough in the WCC that Bernie will still pay your travel and give you some money, so again WDC is why they race. Case in point: Scuderia Ferrari does NOT remember 1982. While F1 is a business and money is right up there, for those who are involved in F1 just like every other racer it is all about ego and pride. They want the ultimate prize. That is why they spend the billions. Pete
Crazy-Helmut?..... They used to be able to do that, but no more.... 2 way telemetry was outlawed quite a few years back. However, the more I've read on this latest moonwalk, it does seem like his 'puters shut down on the formation lap. The ECU didn't fail, but they couldn't listen to it / tweak it as they usually do on the grid. Now, why exactly his and no one elses should fail remains a mystery. They're all identical after all. 'Operator error' maybe? Cheers, Ian
It is the "favored son" effect ie the team conveniently overlooks Webbers car due to their hangovers or if they feel their "Golden Child" will be outpaced and beaten or Dietrich made "THAT CALL".
I wonder why they would need to do that, ie. why wouldn't they tweak it before it gets to the grid, say in the pit garage? I also wonder what tweaking it means? I wonder if it is loading the clutch and they only do that on the grid so it does not heat up too much ... heck I don't know. Pete
Mis-undertanding, disagreement, whatever, as long as we remain "civil", it's all good IMO. +1 Apparently, at least partly as a result of his 'puters failing. I don't think his KERS failed, he just couldn't use the damn thing! I think I've said this before - I suspect "we" may have invented that theory! - I still don't think I've seen any arguments/links that really support this.... Sure, without testing (), they'll try different bits on Friday, possibly on only one car, but I'm still not convinced they deliberately make one car "stronger" than the other. Not true. Best guesses are the Cans netted just over $100MM for the WCC last year. Not all paid yet of course - Bernie holds some for a year Tenth spot probably kept Caterham in business. *Nothing* from Bernie for the WDC. [Having said that, I do agree with you that the WDC is the one they want. ] +1 Neither do I. Some thoughts and stuff I recall reading; - The clutch wears on the installation & formation laps. In order to mess with it's settings (the mythical "bite point"?) they need to plug it in on the grid - Again, no "pit -> car" comms allowed unless "jacked in". - I suspect they're also downloading much data - IIRC, not everything they log gets sent back in real time. - Real time systems monitoring? Cheers, Ian
What does Cans mean? Yes agree that tenth spot probably kept Caterham in business because without winning the WDC they cannot attract decent sponsors. They are poor. Top running teams are not and their focus has moved away from their position in the WCC to actually winning the overall thing (WDC). Yes agree Bernie gives nothing for the WDC, but Ferrari, McLaren and RedBull for example get much more than $47MM (Actual amount, not $100MM but of course they are 2 car teams ... *) from the sponsors per season. Even back in the Marlboro days Ferrari got squillions per year ($80MM according to site I mention below). Only takes 5 x $10MM each sponsors to pass Bernie's WCC amount ... Ferrari could find 5 sponsors in about 10 seconds that would sponsor them for $20MM each. Apparently most teams have 25 sponsors of varying $ amounts ... even if only $1 MM each, that is 1/2 of Bernie's WCC amount for winning the WCC. Facts, using McLaren as an example: Therefore McLaren received $242.42 US MM (converted) from sponsorship compared to only $65 US MM from their position in the WCC. That is 3.72 times ... well worth IMO asking the number 2 to get out of the way. Pete * - I'm confused because the second site I referenced reckons RedBull will get around $72 MM but with first getting $47 MM. Thus for RB to get more than $47 MM they must be using Vettel's and Mark's results in the WDC and adding the 2 values together ... not the WCC ... ???????????????
