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Marshall Goldman Motors?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by FarhanRoute786, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. Rob Chiang

    Rob Chiang Karting
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    Hi Scott,

    Thanks for watching the videos, I just try to lay out the facts to the best of my knowledge. All the comments on youtube and here on Fchat have opened a great discussion.

    In regards to sticking with the car/brand Ferrari, I ain't no quitter. Already halfway down the rabbit hole $10K, $20K, $30K+, no turning back now LOL!!! I think every kid with a Ferrari poster on their wall dreams of owning one some day. The 360 cost half of what my old GT3 cost, but with 10x the good+bad drama.

    If anybody wants to come on this thread, MG employees included and defend their shop and reputation by all means, go for it. This is a neutral platform.

    CNC- because of this debacle I am glad to have my title & registration in hand. However, those actions that have come to light gave me the courage to show my own dealership story. It is VERY EMBARASSING to admit that you got baited/switched. If some of you want to lecture me that's fine, I will admit I got burnt and haven't been made whole yet.

    I just hope others can learn from my mistakes and not dump their life savings into some lemon. I do really believe that my car is now fully sorted and future proofed for several years to come. It could be a lot worse. (watch youtube: CNC Motors Matt Salvo)

    One example of an undisclosed item is the convertible clamshell was gouged through the paint due to the weatherstripping rubbing on the paint when the top is closed. Ferrari obviously doesn't do this with any of their newer models because it looks like a design defect. I just touched up the scratched areas and had that panel PPF'd. You can see on the photo how there is white line where the soft top sits. 20 years of sand and wind vibrations. At first I thought someone keyed the car, then you can see it's a perfectly uniform outline. FYI the rubber weatherstripping is supple and soft and clean. Not a word or photo of this damage from Arthur or Earl on the PPI report.

    Wow a Euro Spec car? I don't think we can drive those in California.

    MG's attitude is they are untouchable by a regular guy like me. However, they give in to someone with youtube clout like Speed Phenom.

    Cheers,
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  3. c8spidey

    c8spidey Formula Junior
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    BBB is powerless to arbitrate and monetary restitution or really settle any claim-I agree that the only way it to file a lawsuit.
     
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  4. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    4,441
    Buyers yes, why would you leave a transaction without a signed title in your hand? The height of stupidity.....as a result, those will be the people who have no chair when the music stops.

    For sellers, its more complex...not much they can do after CNC hides in bankruptcy, but most of them have unsigned titles in their hand so I have a feeling most get their car back eventually.

    But to be honest, these situations (CNC and MG) have nothing to do with each other....one is fraud, felonies at the federal level, and possible tax evasion (according to some internet attorneys)....the other is SOP at alot of used car places and yes, up to the buyer to perform due diligence.....sucks but true.
     
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  5. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
    4,441
    I think his actual damages from things he was promised he would get might exceed small claims court limits. My question would be in what state would a suit be filed? In the end, it might be too much of a hassle.

    Once again, I commend Rob's positive attitude through all this.
     
  6. Rob Chiang

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    Full disclosure here: I signed the Bill of lading from the shipper with no additional notes and no note on the check engine light. When MG was being candid and talking with me, MG said they wish I would have noted everything so they could file a claim against the insurance of the shipping company, since the car was "perfect" when it left MG. They said I have no legal ground to pursue anything whatsoever because I signed the Bill of Lading. I know that in the US you can sue anybody for anything, the question is do I have a probability of winning a money judgment? My excuse for signing the Bill of Lading it was pitch black 10:30pm at night and raining, and didn't want to drive the car in the rain for the 1st test drive. I waited until the following morning when it was dry and sunny that's when all of the damages and defect came to light.
     
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  8. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    I think you do for anything you have in writing (like the texts you posted) on things they said they would give you but nothing else.
     
  9. INRange

    INRange F1 Veteran
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    Rob I watched your video. I have mixed feelings about what you said here.

    First, according to the video....you settled with the shipping company to cover the damage to the front end and the convertible top piece. $2,300

    Second, MG did send you everything except the "silver" key which apparently they still owe you.

    Lastly, spending $8k replacing plugs and coils (check engine light) on a Ferrari 360 is simply not believable. At a Ferrari dealership they might charge you $2-3k just because they can but not $8k. The plugs/coils/EVAP issues are related to a 20 year old car. I don't know the service history on the car or if those items were replaced in the last major. If they are original.......it is a 20 year old car.

    Your mechanic by now has done their smoke test to see if there is a leak in the EVAP system. 20 year old rubber hoses have a way of cracking and throwing that CEL code. Your mechanic needs access to a diagnostic (SDX or Leonardo) computer that will cycle the system.

    While I sympathize with you not being happy........I'm not sure MG has any reason to make you happy especially since you posted here and on YouTube.

    In regards to you PPI from Earl. I am disappointed that Earl did not check the car for the fuel line issues. That is a common problem on Ferraris and those lines look like they have never been removed.

    That said......in your video you state: you "want a fully sorted car" but wanted a "really good deal on it". As you have found out.....those two things are mutually exclusive in the Ferrari world.
     
  10. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Veteran
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    A “fully sorted” older Ferrari is vague as hell. I’m still trying to fully sort my 355 10 years later.
     
  11. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
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    There are always several sides to the story and people will rather post online the negative experience vs good ones.
    Personally my best experience was speccing f8 tributo with Jeff Harley at Ferrari of SF and several great experiences with Mercedes dealerships for high end g wagon and s63.
    I did have some unfortunate experiences were the dealer from supposedly upscale locations were not as nice. You live and you learn;)


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  13. Rob Chiang

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    Believe me, I have mixed feelings as well. My mechanic did not know immediately what to fix, so it took some diagnostic troubleshooting time, driving the car around for a good amount of time, trying to set the monitors before changing out parts, etc. The spark plugs were changed by Earl in 2019, but not the coils so they claimed I was paying my mechanic to perform identical work they did.

    In regards to the convertible top part, Arthur took an aggressive stance to help me with all the issues I reported at first, then that evolved to not being able to do anything. I don't know if he brought the issue to management and got stopped or knew all along that nothing could be done.

    To me, a "fully sorted car" would not have any issues that I could not drive the car the first time I drive it. If I was local, that would be like when I drive it off the lot and don't call them on the way home. I take full responsibility for the car on day 2. That's all I meant by "sorted" and not "project car". I know there is no warranty.

    In regards to posting here and on youtube, I only did so after they refused to talk to me anymore. I also waited since February 2021 until May 2021 to receive a missing key with nothing but excuses. From what others tell me, I am a nice guy, but my patience completely ran out by then. I purchased the car on 12/23/2020 and I posted the first video on Youtube 5/6/2021. How else should I have proceeded?

    I am ready to get my car back next week and put this purchasing situation behind me. However, I am happy to answer any questions that you guys have.

    I do appreciate you watching the video and continuing the conversation here on FChat with me, just a rookie. Even if nothing in my situation can be remedied, someone can learn from this thread.
     
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  14. Rob Chiang

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    This is the first time I have a bad experience with any car dealership. I only leave 5 star reviews on google. I didn't look forward to sharing my negative story and feeling completely embarassed while opening myself to more criticism. However, I just decided to do it. Now I will have a totally different viewpoint on future car purchases going forward. It's unfortunate, but oh well. "you live and you learn"
     
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  15. Rob Chiang

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    One more 0.02 here:

    If MG really wanted to sort out the car for me, they would have immediately offered to tow the car to MG Beverly Hills (around $350 for a tow from Norcal to Socal) and had the car fixed at "their wholesale mechanic cost"....They had no intention of doing so, and dropped the hot potato in my driveway and left me with it.

    The squeaky wheel gets the grease and I am almost done squeaking.
     
  16. 32 Ford

    32 Ford Karting

    Jan 31, 2021
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    The small claims I was referring was were someone wrote they would replace the broken top part. If all they said was I will bring to managements attention. You have no claim. If someone said they would replace that part as part of the warranty/contract/ good will , or any other reason that is a contract. File a small claims in MG jurisdiction. It's simple, cheap and relatively straight forward. Better than paying $3000.00 for a new one. Just make sure you have proof that MG or their agent said it would be replaced at no charge to you.
     
  17. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 Veteran
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    Can u break down how much this ordeal actually cost u which should have been fixed before reaching you as agreed between them and u?


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  18. Rob Chiang

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    1. As I posted in the text messages from Arthur, MG initially said they would have Earl order the part and ship it to me. MG's expense.
    2. This changed when they blamed the shipping company for any and all damage. The shipper and I settled on a refund of the shipping fee $2300 and MG will NOT be paying the difference.
     
  19. Rob Chiang

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    Hi Natkingcolebasket69 thanks for taking interest in this rookie's first post.

    I sent my mechanic's estimate to MG asap. They just sat on it for weeks with no feedback at all from them. No offer to take it to their mechanics in socal. Nada...nothing. I went ahead and authorized the work to be done while I waited, hopeful and naively, for a response from MG. Arthur was washing his hands of me and said he could do nothing, call Danny Baker but he's a pretty busy guy. After calling MG Cleveland around 10 times, different times of the day, emailing, voicemails, I finally got a hold of MG Danny Baker where he immediately accused me of fraud against his dealership. Wow how insulting, I thought.

    Danny Baker asked for 2 more estimates and I said well I have been waiting for you feedback for weeks and the mechanical work on the car is nearly done and one week away from finally passing CA smog. How am I supposed to do what you are asking and what guarantees of reimbursement can you give me? Danny Baker said well after you send me the documents I am asking for we can "continue the conversation". I sent the OBD2 misfiring readouts which I provided as well as photos of the leaking fuel lines. Well, we never continued the conversation. Danny Baker 100% ghosted me after that 1 and only conversation.

    The final conversation that I had with Arthur in April 2021, I asked for a fair and reasonable settlement amount for the work done. I stated that I would accept the cost of the work to replace 2 spark plugs, 2 coils, 2 fuel pipes and a thermostat with the associated pro-rated labor. After all, 2 cylinders were misfiring, not 8 and I just elected to do the other 6 at the same time. I am willing to bear that portion of the expense. Arthur said "well I know what I would agree to real quick". "As soon as we hang up I will talk to Danny Baker" This implies that he would if he could, but he can't.

    That is the classic (good cop-bad cop).

    The MISFIRE CEL work detailed:
    8 Spark plugs, 8 coils, 2 fuel pipes, thermostat, coolant, fuel, smog test and diagnostic labor & mechanical labor. Total $7758.

    The EVAP CEL came much later on, not related to MG.

    Thanks for keeping this thread and not ghosting me like MG LOL!!
     
  20. Rob Chiang

    Rob Chiang Karting
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    I am not sure what it is about my Google reviews but they get more 10x more views than my YouTube Instagram and Facebook profiles combined. Must be the algorithm. Lol
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  21. bw929

    bw929 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2021
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    I almost bought an F430 from MG's Cleveland store. (I had it inspected, slept on it for a day or two, then someone else came in and bought it! Grrr!!)

    I did get a haughty take it or leave it vibe from them, which is not a great feeling, but not a deal breaker for me if the car is good. I got the feeling that they usually sell good cars.

    Earl Gibbs did the PPI for me. I think he is a Ferrari expert, works on them a lot, and that he did a good PPI. He spent time with me on the phone, answered all my questions, and gave me good advice about what to do if I ended up getting the car. However, he did not check the engine (like compression test/leak down test.) Really, he just looked at the CEL, clutch wear, the paint, the condition of the brakes/tires, sticky buttons check, and other things like that, much of which I could have done, and I'm not by any means a mechanic. But it was worth it to me, because to do it myself, I would have had to have flown out there, and I could not have done things like the CEL check, or clutch wear, etc. By the way, he was very clear about what he would check, and his fee was pretty low, about right I think, considering he did not do major engine checks or get the car on a lift.

    As far as having an "independent" PPI done: I wonder how possible this is. Maybe in a gigantic city like L.A., or N.Y. But in the medium-sized cities, like Cleveland, for example, all these guys know each other. (Doesn't mean they LIKE each other!) In most cities, there are maybe one or two places that sell Ferraris, and maybe a similar number of places that work on them regularly, have the "Ferrari computer" to check clutch wear, etc.
     
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  22. Rob Chiang

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    You might have dodged a bullet and will never know. I was very close to making a deal with Mr. Thom at CNC Motors for an RS Green GT3RS and luckily that deal didn't go through. What did you end up purchasing (post photo)?
     
  23. bw929

    bw929 Rookie

    Feb 20, 2021
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    I agree . . . maybe I did dodge a bullet.

    I haven't bought a car yet, but I am still looking.

    Sorry to hear about all the troubles you have had.
     
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  24. Rob Chiang

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    I will be posting another video to kind of wrap up my purchase experience. I'm ready to move forward to the owner and driver experience. Summer is here it's time to drive top down!!!
     
  25. c8spidey

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    Disagree about the notion that it a comprehensive PPi was not an affordable or practical option but if one is spending 5figures and likely 6 figures ,especially on a used Ferrari, I'll bet for 2k or a bit more, a specialist could have been sent to do the thorough PPI.
     
  26. Rob Chiang

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    What do you think about hiring an experienced used Ferrari broker to be the middleman for a fixed fee? Someone like normal guy supercar offers this purchasing consultant services. Or should I have called someone like Doug at Switchcars?

    Would it be better to "phone a friend" or just get better inspectors on the car before pulling the trigger?
     
  27. c8spidey

    c8spidey Formula Junior
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    By all means If Doug is an expert F-car inspector, he should be dispatched to do a thorough PPI, unlike a broker who possibly may have a somewhat different objective.
    And a reputable seller should welcome a independent PPI as well.
     
  28. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    A broker is not a mechanic with years of experience in diagnosing and repairing the cars....LOL and a "consultant"? Is this the makeup counter at Macys? My mechanic travels to perform PPIs.
     
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