Maserati 200 SI VIN 2403

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Tadini, Jul 15, 2011.

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  1. Tadini

    Tadini Rookie

    Jul 15, 2011
    3
    Hello to all,

    I am trying to find somebody who can tell me a few more details regarding a car that was offered to me and which seems to carry at least some repro parts on it. It is a 200 SI Barchetta VIN 2403, formerly owned by Edmond Pery, but which has meanwhile passed trough other hands. The basic question is whether it is a genuine example. Browsing through the threads, I found an earlier discussion where this car is mentioned as supposedly built from pieces as a copy of 2422. This is by the way the number of the engine which is currently fitted.
    If necessary, I could also post some pictures of the frame etc.
     
  2. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,489
    Edmond the man who loves all sort of girls.... had two 200S: #2403 and #2422. While #2422 was a good, original car, #2403 is doubtful. It was inspected by Steve Hart on behalve of a member of this forum and myself. He found the majority of components are non-original incl. the chassis. The engine had some original parts. Also the body is not original.

    The car is on the market since many years by a great number of dealers - and did not sell!

    Edmond made the mistake telling always different story how he came to #2403, non of this stories were convincing at the end of the day....

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  3. Tadini

    Tadini Rookie

    Jul 15, 2011
    3
    Thank you for your warning, Walter. This is what I suspected, but did not want to speak out frankly. I am not a Maserati expert, but even to me the diff housing, radiator, body shell, and rear part of the frame looked repro. There are also many relatively cheap wrong parts on the car which let the whole thing down, like wrong hose clamps, modern nuts and such, which is quite uncommon on a valuable car.
    I would have thought that the basic chassis was original, and also the engine,though. Are you sure that it is also made from scratch? The weldings looked authentic to me, but as I said, my knowledge is not very deep. I am better if it comes to early Alfas...
     
  4. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,489
    Not exactly sure about the chassis.

    Can we agree on the term that #2403 is "...not a good car from the 200S-series"?

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  5. Wolf

    Wolf Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    485
    When one of the former owners of "#2403" applied for the American Ferrari Historic Challenge my opinion (amongst others) was asked in January 2009 by David Seibert who was responsible for the selection of the cars. Subsequently and duly the car was not accepted.

    BTW: Engine #2403 is in #2409. IMHO the stamping of the engine in "#2403",#2422, is not a correct one.

    Regards


    Wolfi
     
  6. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,489
    #6 wbaeumer, Jul 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is #2403 at various periods:

    1. the original car, fitted with Fiandri-body at the 1000 Km Nuerburgring 1956. The car was driven by Francesco Giardini and was a DNF.

    2. the car in Oct. 1980. Now a totally wrong body is fitted on the car.

    3. the car today, now fitted with a Fantuzzi-style coachwork.

    Edmond once told me (beside some of his funny stories about his girlzzzzz....) that the car was a "barn find" and restored by him in 1979.....

    Prior to him the car was seen with Homer Tsakis, who owned no less than three 200S at the same time, al of them more or less project cars.

    Too much confusion about the today "#2403"...

    Ciao!
    WAlter
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  8. mairesse

    mairesse Karting

    Nov 20, 2009
    145
    London and Cotswolds
    Full Name:
    Gordon
    If you want a few photos of what a real component, casting, stamp etc on a 200S looks like, send me a private message.
    Gordon
     
  9. Tadini

    Tadini Rookie

    Jul 15, 2011
    3
    Thanks to everybody. You have helped me to avoid a possible mistake. Meanwhile the facts are relatively clear and we also have the results of the expertise including a metal analysis. It all corresponds with the objections mentioned here. If somebody needs further info, he can send me a private message.
     
  10. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2006
    4,571
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    Yep if I smell my computer screen I can tell by the odor it is a dodgy car;-)

    Just looking at it...even though this is not the era I specialize in...not a good feeling too many new looking bits.

    Last year I had a ride in another dubious car of that era, it looks legit all parts seem genuine period parts...but it is not accepted by Classiche Its owner wanted to pay me to do a book about it to prove its legitimacy...I looked into the story of it and think that it was made from genuine bits...of which the Orsi's had a mountain of, after the sale to Citroen, in the old unused Maserati foundry factory which was a few minutes from the factory. Omar Orsi was selling some parts in the 70's and just having scrap metal dealers pick them up.
    A few Swedish guys, as per a story in the Swedish club mag went to Modena in about 1977 met Omar Orsi by chance. Since they asked him about parts he took them there, they bought bits and filled their station wagon and small trailer...at the same time a scrap metal dealer was filling a truck...after they said goodbye to Orsi...they followed that truck (we Swedes can be canny;-)) and it led them to the scrapyard where there were loads of old racong car parts...and the owner of the scrpyard had a brnd new Khamsin by the way. Can you parallel economy:)?!

    Then later the same day as they drove through Modena on the way to their hotel for a shower and dinner Omar Orsi saw them drive by and they thought he looked very surprised and yes embarassed when he saw their trailer with even more bits...

    Then as former mega collector museum owner Peter Kaus told me in 1995, when de Tomaso took over Maserati from Citroen he was having the last remaining such bits thrown away and Joel Finn the historian/restorer was there with a truck happily filling it up...

    So that car which I won't identify here or in response to any emails pr PM's, was, I believe, made that way with real parts against Omar Orsi's will, someone betrayed his trust. Being made with real parts -much more so than the 200SI which this thread is about- is not enough: the X car I am mentioning was not made in period at the factory is not a part of their official records and Maserati Classiche won't discuss that car. Since I had a good rapport with them I declined doing the book about the car. It it s what it is but NOT a proper factory built car.

    Best regards,

    Marc
     

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