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Maserati 3500 Sebring restoration

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by otaku, Aug 17, 2008.

  1. otaku

    otaku Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
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    Josh
    I have the opportunity to purchase a 3500 sebring in need of restoration. Just curious but how long and how much money can I expect to invest in the car? It has quite a few parts (some valuable I'm told) and is there any chance it would pay off in the end either breaking even or making money?
     
  2. johnei

    johnei Formula 3
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    Mar 22, 2006
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    I think you'd be better off by walking away. These cars are expensive to restore, aren't worth much when done, and there were only about 400 (441?) that were made. The mechanical bits are more common because other Maserati models used them. So I don't think it makes sense breaking it up and it doesn't make a lot of sense restoring it unless you love the car.
     
  3. johnei

    johnei Formula 3
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    Anyone have a different opinion? I still think my first statement is reasonable but I'm sure there are other possible outcomes.

    At what point does it become worthwhile to break up a Sebring, even if it just means supplying parts to restore another Sebring? If it were a GTE and a SWB things might be different but that isn't the case here. Maybe this car is restorable as it sits?

    Also I gather 591 were produced.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Better be a labor of love because it will be a money pit. I restored one fifteen or so years ago. I doubt it is worth now what it cost then to do.
     
  5. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    It depends on how much money you have to pay for the project-car!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  6. JazzyO

    JazzyO F1 World Champ

    Jan 14, 2007
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    I disagree - a much bigger influence will be the actual state of the car! I recently drove a Ferrari 330 GT that had been comprehensively restored. This car looked perfect when the guy bought it, he didn't think he needed to restore it at all. 4 years and around 40,000 euros later, the car finally is perfect. Don't forget, this was already a good car to begin with.

    Don't do a restoration to make money on it, at least not with a Sebring. Do it because you love the car and you love restoring itself.


    Onno
     
  7. otaku

    otaku Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
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    Josh
    well I love the car and I love restoring but if I can't break even at least then its probably not a good move (yet)
     
  8. otaku

    otaku Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
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    Josh
    if anyone is interested in the car I could help out with its acquisition (barchetta I got your pm but your inbox is full!)
     
  9. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    I'm in the process of restoring a VERY simple Italian car (my Fiat Multipla). It's amazing how much time, money, and space it takes. I would imagine that the plating alone on a Maserati Sebring would easily cost upwards of $5000 today, and more if the bumpers and grille are rusted or damaged. I don't think you could possibly come out ahead unless you got a really good car at a really good price, and did a great deal of the work yourself.
     
  10. otaku

    otaku Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
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    very true (been looking into this a bit now) in fact the car does have some rust and is missing some chrome pieces (has quite a bit though) this is by no means something you'll be driving soon. I still wish I had the time and money to do this but I don't, still someone must it'd be a shame to see this go unrestored .
     
  11. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    otaku,
    can you disclose the VIN of the car and post some nice little pics to see about what we are talking?

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  12. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ

    Oct 17, 2005
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  13. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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  14. Peconga

    Peconga Rookie

    Jan 11, 2006
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    Doug
    Under normal circumstances I would steer clear of this thread, given the unusally high degree of misinformation and rampant daydreaming already posted here. However, since I happen to own the vehicle at the heart of this discussion, a 1963 Maserati Sebring project car, I will do my best to set the record straight.

    1) Forum member "otaku" recently inquired about an Alfa Romeo Spider that I had for sale here in Boise, Idaho. Apparently he also saw the Sebring listed on my website at www.peconga.com in the "Coming Soon" section, and called me with a few questions about both cars. Although I plan on offering the Sebring for sale in the near future (to make room for a much nicer 3500GT Touring coupe), the car has been in secure storage for several years, and still needs a bit of sorting out before I go public with it.

    However, I need to make it clear that I have not shown the car to anyone, nor published any photos or a even a detailed description, much less entered into discussions with anyone about buying, selling, or brokering it on my behalf. Consequently, I would appreciate it if any further inquiries about the car be directed to me personally, and that any further speculation or representations about it's condition be put to rest.

    2) From my personal experience, certain opinions offered in this thread about the market value of Maserati Sebrings are seriously out of date. Although prices of classic Maserati GTs in general languished for many years, they have been climbing steadily over the last two years, and Sebring prices in particular have skyrocketed, with top-tier examples in Europe now commanding well over US$100K. For example:

    - 1966 Series 2, fully restored, pristine condition offered by Wim Prins (Netherlands) at 105,000 EUR / US$154K
    - 1963 Series 1, low-mileage, mint condition offered by E.Thiesen KG (Germany) at 96,500 EUR / US$141.6K
    - 1966 Series 2, un-restored, barn-stored for 30 years, offered by Maseratisource (USA) at 66,900 EUR / US$98.2K
    - 1963 Series 1, un-restored, disk wheels, "driveable" condition, offered by private party (Austria) at 54,000 EUR / US$79.2K

    I would also venture to estimate that over 80% of the Maserati Sebrings and 3500GTs sold in the last two years in the USA have gone back to Europe, with most of those going to Germany and the Netherlands. Specialists such as Olaf Boecking GmbH and others have become the world leaders in restoring these cars, and in many cases are re-engineering known weaknesses in the original engine design to improve performance and reliability.

    3) I agree entirely with the opinions expressed by members "wbaumer" and "JazzyO" that the question of "How much" depends largely on the starting condition of the vehicle and the original acquisition cost. It is no secret that the cost to properly restore ANY car (be it a Maserati or a Mustang, a Duesenberg or a DAF) is almost certain to exceed the market value of the finished vehicle, and anyone who undertakes such a project with the expectation of turning a profit is either naive or delusional. True enthusiasts restore cars because they love them and want to see them returned to their former glory, not because they plan on making a quick buck (or a Euro) at it.

    Best regards,
    Doug alias Peconga
    Boise, Idaho USA
    www.peconga.com
    www.registromaserati.com
    1963 Sebring 101.01945 (current)
    1960 Vignale Spider 101.1043 (former)
     
  15. beng

    beng Formula Junior
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    Jan 24, 2006
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    Doug - thanks for clearing this up. I, too, inquired about the car and received a less than reassuring response. It's good to know the car is in able, caring hands. I for one look forward to the pictures and your assessment when it's ready for sale.

    For those who do not know Doug, he's a true car guy and a credit to the collector car community. I purchased a set of wheels from Doug that were exactly as he described, if not better. Shipped immediately in bulletproof packaging. Doug, thanks again.
     
  16. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    Apr 23, 2002
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    Just for comparison although a bit out of date. I was offerd a Sebring here in Montana a few years ago. The car was not running, mostly there, but slightly diassembled. They were wanting 4k for the car.
     
  17. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    Jan 28, 2004
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    #17 Bertocchi, Sep 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I picked up this car yesterday at a clients home. He is a real enthusiast and the finished product will represent a life's dream of his.

    Walter, the chassis is 101-1959. There are more photos to come.

    David
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  18. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    David,
    thanks for posting the pics. History is this:


    AM101.01.959
    new to Hans W. Liholm -Hamburg/D
    later imported to Canada
    later owned by a Toronto based leasing company. Last leasee was Daniel Melchers.
    1981 offered for sale in Toronto by a Ferrari dealer and bought by Marc W. Walton -Alberta/CAN, then dismantled.
    2001 with Heiko Schilf -??/CAN(?), still dismantled
    2000 with Louis J. D `Amore -Wilton.NH./USA

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  19. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    My client is Mr. D'Amore. Thank you for the information.

    David
     
  20. johnei

    johnei Formula 3
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  21. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    I am going to replace the floors first. The car has a double floor and I believe I saw signs of old insulation between the two layers of floor? Can anyone confirm that it is correct?

    David
     
  22. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    #22 Bertocchi, Sep 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. carnutz

    carnutz Karting

    Aug 11, 2008
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    #23 carnutz, Sep 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    David, I just completed the job on my Sebring that you are starting. I empathize with you. My Sebring apparently had standing water in all four floor wells for some period on time and all four needed replacement. I'm guessing that my car had been stored outside and water had accumulated because of leaking door and window seals.
    Most of the rusty wells were single thickness, but the drivers foot well had about 4 layers of miscellaneous materials in a prior feeble attempt to correct the problem.
    My solution was to cut out all the pans and weld in new custom fabricated panels. A friend of mine had just completed his Sebring and had a spare set of floor pans made. After congratulating myself many times over for my good fortune, I received them and tried to install them. They fell through the frame openings and were at least an inch smaller than what was needed(the wonders of hand built cars).
    I had a set made by a local sheet metal shop using 16 gauge steel which is thicker than the original metal. I made cardboard templates that were the exact size of my frame members to insure a proper fit..
    After many days of welding, cutting and grinding, I now have floors that are rock solid and much stronger than the original. I had three stiffening grooves rolled into each panel as per original and used new stiffener braces under the front floor pans also like the originals.
    I've attached some photos from before, during and after.
    Good luck,
    Larry
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  24. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    Larry,

    Boy does that look familiar. I went out today and picked some poster board and am doing as you did making templates. Thanks for the advice, photos, and encouragement.
    I am guessing that there was insulation in between the two floors. The insulation held water and helped the floors to rust heavily. It seems to have happened to many of the cars?

    David
     
  25. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
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    #25 Bertocchi, Sep 16, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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