Maserati Bora ???

Yes to everything!

 

That statement makes no sense in english. So what were you trying to say Walter?

 

Except if you are riding in the pass. seat. Which only works if you're vertically challenged.

 

OK, my mistake: I meant that some infos written in the book are outdated today as better infos came to light - not at least from Alfieri himself.

Ciao!
Walter

 

OK, yes there are some errors but none the less it's a very in depth book for what are really two obscure and unloved exotic cars. AFAIK it's the only book. You takes what can get.

Like so many exotics from that era (Miura & Mangusta included) these cars usually had one or more design flaws that unless one is willing to substantially modify the car (frequently in appearance) you cannot remedy this stuff. Most of us don't want to radically change the appearance of these classics. With the Bora it's air flow through the engine compartment that is it's Achilles heel. You do some things to mitigate this problem but if you want to drive hard in hot weather look elsewhere. It also affects the high speed stability but it's not god awful.

The rest of the design (except for those with an aversion to green fluid:>) ) is excellent. They have an unbelievably strong chassis and body. A tad heavy some would say. But drive this car for any long trip and you will soon realize what a fantastic design it is as GT car especially since it's a mid engined one. You can carry a lot of luggage in this car.

You wouldn't want to take the long trips in a Daytona, Miura, Countach, Mangusta or Boxer once you've done it in this car. I'd guess that a Khamsin is even better.

Bob S.

 

I would have to disagree and state that Giugiaro's best efforts were the Iso Grifo and Bizzarrini Strada. Both of these cars are well balanced designs that look good from all angles. The Bora is one of the best mid engined cars of it's day with great handeling, but the looks were never show stopping. If so you would see these cars taking more best of show awards or people's choice awards. Totally agree that it was a better car to live with than the Lambo or Pantera. Good build quality too!

 

I am a big fan of Giugiaro's work, the Bizzarini is stunning as well , but have you seen a DeTomaso Mangusta lately?? Sorry had to get that in there, you could imagine I am partial to it.

 

Funny how with all this talk about the great works of Giugiaro. No one has mentioned the Ghibli, which has been considered by many designers along with the E Type Jag as the most beautiful post war production sports car.


Joe

 

This is amazing. I would have love to see a Merak V8.Have they actually made 2 prototype cars and sold them or just 2 engines that went nowhere.
I was the 2nd owner of Merak SS AM11211536 in France. Despite a difficult purchase from Thepenier I loved that car. You seem to know a lot about Maseratis. Would you know where that car is now?

 

No idea where #112.11536 is today. But one of the Merak-V8-motors are with a friend of mine here in Germany. The engine is on displyonly. This Merak-V8-motor went in one of the QP II-prototypes and did about 8.000 km in it. Then it was taken out and a standart V6 was installed. This QP II was sold by another friend of mine 3 years ago by CHRISTIES to the UK.

Ciao!
Walter

 

I don't know that there's room in a Merak for the length of a V8 is there? Besides, a nice V6 twin Turbo should work very well.
The extra room provided for those faux back seats is very nice to have.

 

I'm a bit confused. I thought the Merak V8 was called the Bora.

 

I agree with Walter, the back of the Bora is a might boring. Subjective as it may be, in the years I have gone to Italian car shows [a good time to do side by side comparisons] the Bora and Merak look so much more muscular than their contemporaries when looking at the cars "In Toto". When I look at each 70s and 80s mid-engined GTs, the merits of the Bora [& Merak SS...partial to the Merak SS] out weighs what the others have to offer. I felt for instance that the 2 aforementioned models sit too high...no problem get lowered progressive rate racing springs [got that in the works], and drop them. How about comfort and appointments...that was a high priority for Maserati....much better than most of their contemporaries. How much speed do you need? I don't know about you, but 175 mph and 150 mph are good numbers, even 30+ years later. It's not all about speed anyway is it? What about exclusivity?...the time is coming when they will be sought after GREEN PEA SOUP and all. The Citroen Sport Maserati community is very progressive and active ... they don't mind the GREEN PEA SOUP. There are very cool restorations/modifications taking place, just look at Walter's [aggressive kick a$$] car on the Merak thread [yes, my Merak SS is there too]. Just my $0.02 worth.

Ciao,
George

 

Discussions of the merits of Citroen Hydraulics are not complete without the input from Mr. Swain. Since the old Maserati Yahoo list is dead and the rest of us GT owners don't want to participate in the hidden agenda of the Maserati GT yahoo group.

This forum is probably a good place for everyone to exchange info. ************ would also be a good place, but for some reason only the current era owners visit that site.


Joe
BTW - It is not Green Pea Soup. Since only someone from another planet would design such a system for use in a Maserati, it is obviously Vulcan Blood.

 

Just to be sure I don't want my comments to be construed incorrectly. I don't have any hidden agendas. My comment about the LHM fluid [affectionatly called the green soup] is not an issue for me. Secondly, LMH is very reliable when properly maintained. For racing it is hard to gauge the braking on the Meraks [the ones that had LHM] and Boras, but for touring most don't have a problem with it [IE. the Citroen folks]. This leads to my conclusion that it is only a matter of time that the Bora will be recognized for the great car it is by the greater general public.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Ciao,
George

 

Joe, Maserati made a V8-prototype engine out of 2 Merak units!!! Rather strange! I meant this motor.

Ciao!
Walter

 

Nothing, abolutley nothing that comes from Citroen has something to do with "Supercar"-status.
So, even when the prices are going up currently no Bora (exeption: the Bora GrIV!) or Khamsin ever can compete in the collectors market agains the Daytona! Whatever anybody says differently - the market tells the real story! A fact - period!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Walter,
I was joking. Of course if they used 2 Merak engines wouldn't it be a V12 with 2 sets of timing chains?


Joe

 

George,
First Welcome to the last refuge of the Maserati GT Scoundels. Never thought you had a hidden agenda, we all know who that is and why many us long time Maserati GT owners won't participate in the Maserati GT Forum.

It is a lot more fun here.

Joe

 

Oh Walter you are just so bombastic. Do practice at that?

 

You're going to lower a Bora and drive it on the street? Have fun with that one. Now 175mph may be a good number even today but it has zero to do with either of these cars. The best I've seen is 160+ after chasing a Porsche Turbo for about 5 miles in Nevada in a nicely tuned standard Bora but that was pretty much it. That was at about 4,000 ft elevation so maybe at sea level one could squeeze a bit more but certainly not 175. It also had the front spoiler lip and even with that the front end liked to dance back and forth about an inch or two. I'm not sure 175 would even be such a good idea without more changes. The Bora does not need different springs or shocks for 160+ mph on roads. The track is a whole different issue.

Bob S.

 

Joe, when I saw this "bella motori" first time - I coudn`t stop laughing!!! The way they made it was so crude! They took one complete Merak-engine and cut-off 2 sylinder from a 2nd one and weldet both together. The engine is not dismantled today and so I can`t wait to see how and what they did inside....!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Bob, proof me the opposite! The market has no mercy. Tell me any Bora or Khamsin who came close to the value of a Daytona during the last 10 years!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Can`t agree more: no Bora in standart specs will match 175 mph!

Ciao!
Walter

 

Thank you Joe for the kind welcome.

I don't have a Bora, but I do think they sit too high when compared to a Pantera or a 308/328 Ferrari.....just my own personal preference. Getting in and out of my Merak is no problem. Another 2" drop ought do the trick for me. I like low cars.

As for my comment about driving speed. I was just running some general estimates by you guys. I have driven 135 mph...once.
Once I got over 100 mph [on the highway], it all seemed about the same, and my palms were sweating....need I say more. My enjoyment comes from driving twisty North Georgia mountain roads[talk about hairpin turns down the mountainside].

Driving at 160 mph sounds amazing...I'm not brave enough to go that fast. Maybe in the Nevada desert chasing a Porche, I would give it a try. How did all that work out....how long did it take to pass him?

Ciao,
George