Maserati exhibition

The list of cars:
http://www.museocasaenzoferrari.it/sito/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/3.-Cars-The-Great-Challenges-Ferrari-Maserati.pdf

 

Impressive! It will hopefully not take long before the first report from someone who has been there gets posted.

 

Well this collection is really something that must be seen in person. I will offer some quick thoughts on the collection/museum and offer some pics.

First the building itself is much more restrained than I had thought from aerial pictures on the web. It is actually pretty well integrated into the neighborhood. The courtyard between the original Ferrari shop and the new exhibition hall serves as a hip outdoor cafe. If I lived in Modena, I could see myself hanging out there taking a coffee.

Normally it would not take very long to go through a collection of +/- 20 cars on display, but the real genious of the new exhibition hall is all the sight lines that it affords. If you are a photographer, you could easily spend all day shooting all the great angles and compositions. It truly is an art museum, which is a stark contrast to Galleria Ferrari in Maranello.

There is a very comprehensive static display of photos and documents offering history on all the carrozzerie that Ferrari utilized, which I thought interesting. I thought the 50/50 mix of Ferrari/Maserati was appropriate given its location in Modena and sponsorship by the regional government. It would make sense to continue this mix as Maserati does not have a formal museum.

Taken as a whole, I thought that the Maserati collection was more compelling than the Ferrari contigent. It certainly leaves you having a higher appreciation for the vintage Maseratis.
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The collection is fantastic, I saw it in June. I literally took a picture of everything in the museum so I'll try to post pics later

 

Can you post a photo of the "350S"...?

 

Hi Walter,

here is a picture of the Maserati Tipo 350 S s/n 3503 displayed at Casa Enzo Ferrari in Modena. The car is owned by a well known German collector.

The exhibition is great though a few cars smell fishy.

Regards

Bjoern
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Björn,
thanks. Great looking car!

I was contacted some years ago to research the history of #3503 and to suply period photos for the rebuild.
I asked about the provenance reg. the location where the chassis etc. was "found". The answer was "We assume in Brazil". I asked about "as found"-photos, name(s) of former owner(s), info who had it discovered and further necessary details. All those infos that are absolutely necessary to confirm the provenance and history of such car. From that moment on I never got a reply......!

Now it was told that the car survived in Argentina............! Well.........

 

Dear Gordon,

I meant that a few of the cars displayed at the Casa Enzo Ferrari do not have the best reputation. For me a car "smells fishy" if suddenly - out of the blue - a chassis appears in "South America". In my opinion a car also smells fishy if it does not have a continous history. This opinion is not restricted only to Maserati, there are also a few Ferraris displayed with big black holes in their histories.

But this is only my personal opinion.

Regards

Bjoern

 

Bjoern
as of the displayed Maseratis only the V12 "350S" is fishy, although looking fantastic! To which Ferraris do you refer?

 

Interesting is, that not a 5000GT was displayed as the Ferrari-counterpart, the Superfast is there.

 

Walter,
What about the 450S claiming chassis #4501? The body is obviously not original, while the engine is a 450s it is a marine version. Usually not a problem, but then there is the question of the chassis. A phantom chassis that suddenly appears claiming to be #3501 350S chassis that was used as the prototype chassis for the first 450s but was never numbered as a 450s (#4501).

Joe

 

Joe,
despite the V12 350S there are "as found"-photos of #4501 and photos. I personally inspected the chassis of that car some years ago and its clearly original. You can even see the rough cuts made to some front tubes to make the big V8 fit.

We can discuss why and under what circumstances this car became a 450S - but its an original chassis!

 

Dear Walter,

I would love to hear from you a little bit more in depth and precise what you mean with "clearly original". What were your findings inspecting that car and what makes you so sure that it is an original chassis?

I do not mean the following offensive in any way but:

Do you really think (and if so why) that you personally can definitely judge if this is an original chassis or a more or less exact copy?

In my opinion all these questions are legitimate for a car obviously lacking any continuous history and virtually coming out of the blue.

Best regards

Bjoern

 

Björn,
I think you refer to #4501.

Maserati made a very specific detail on (!) their chassis. From this detail you can clearly see weather the chassis was replicated or not correctly restored (if original).

What this Maserati detail is, I do not disclose here - but with #4501 it was there and clearly visible.
#4501 was "not coming out of the blue" like #3503, which is also on display in Modena.
There are "as found" photos of #4501 existing.

#3503 is not supported by this kind of provenance (to my knowledge.....)

 

Walter,
Are you stating that this chassis is stamped #4501? If that is the case then Maserati would have stamped 2 chassis' as #4501 since the Costin Coupe was originally #4501.

Also is there evidence of the #3501 stamping, since it was that chassis that was used for the first 450S.

Joe

 

Joe,
I did not refer to the stamping. I said that the chassis of #4501 (in Italy!) is genuine!
The history of the car is quite confusing.

Perhaps the owner -who is a member on this forum- can tell us something about the history of his car.

 

Genuine what is the question. If it is what it claims to be, then it should clearly have been stamped #3501.

 

Its a genuine chassis - and it was re-numbered!

 

Renumber by whom?

Remember that the chassis should have started life as a 300S chassis, then became 350S #3501, then became #4501. So then what chassis is under the Costin Coupe, which has been well documented as being #4501?

 

I believe that this chassis got at some point a V12 engine fitted and was probably shown (tested?) in Caracas 1957 with race-no.6, a number that was later given in the race to a standard 300S (#3072).

I also believe that this car had been tested by Moss and Behra (and driven in the race by Villoresi and Magioli) in Sweden in 1956 and had this strange bulge on its bonnet. Not sure what exactly was under the bonnet but no car exists today anymore with that detail.

But I have to say that my thesis does not fit into the opinion of the owner about #4501.

 

Hi Joe,

thanks for your input and that is exactly the crucial point and one can not skip this by just claiming that it is a genuine chassis, "Basta"...

To refabricate a 450 S-chassis, let's say in the 1980's, I would have copied it from a genuine 450 S-chassis with all the details of course. So Walter, I can not see that looking like a genuine chassis does really mean it IS the real thing. For me, this is no hard evidence to proof anything.

Walter, did you do metallurgical tests on the chassis to further confirm your clear statement? Did you measure the chassis ? What's about that continuous history?

Regards

Bjoern

 

Björn,
I just stated my view about the history of the car!
Also - photos of the discovery in the USA and later in the workshop of the Orsis are existing. We can discuss here about the quality of the resto but the chassis shows all details of the real thing. As I mentioned before - Maserati made a typical trademark on the chassis that is known by very few people. From this detail and the way it was made, you can easy see that its original.

Yes, you can fake almost everything today. But in 1980/81???

Sorry to say but I strongly assume that this profs are better than yours. And if you have better ones I would be more than pleased to see them.

 

Dear Walter,

don't forget I did not claim to have any "profs" for anything. You were the one stating that it is a "clearly original" chassis. At least I have now learnt that you have no evidence to justify your claim in any case. You assume and you believe that the chassis is original, not more, not less. That is ok with me.

BTW, there are a lot of people especially in Italy who are really knowledgable, now and then. And some of them faked cars already in the late 1970's.

Regards

Bjoern