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Maserati Indy

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Timo04, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. Timo04

    Timo04 Karting
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    Jul 2, 2007
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    Timo
    What are the "best" years or series produced of the Maserati Indy? The Citroën style brakes on the latter series are they any good or should the be avoided? The Indy is quiet rare these days and for me the car is an attractive GT 2+2. All thoughts and advice is welcome.
     
  2. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Apr 22, 2006
    2,251
    Atlanta
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    The Car Nut
    I am resurrecting this old thread as I did not see another one specifically for Indy owners to post photos of their cars, ask questions and make comments.

    A friend recently asked me to sell his 1973 Indy 4900 and the car is sleeping in my garage. I've owned several Indys in the past but they were all in "average" condition, which is my nice way of saying they needed a lot of work and money to make them really enjoyable. After driving his Indy I've come to realize that a very nice Indy is a great car and perhaps one of the best exotic car values. Powerful and comfortable, yet very classy and unmistakably Maserati. .

    These are a few photos of his Indy, others are welcomed to post theirs.

    If you are interested in a getting an Indy, I posted his on the classified section of FChat:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1973-maserati-indy-4900.600008/

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  3. KLHarper

    KLHarper Rookie

    Sep 4, 2009
    3
    Nice Indy

    Does anyone have a good parts cross reference for the Indy. I know the tail lights are Alfa Berlina, and front suspension appears to be Jaguar. But I am trying to find a cross reference for other parts, as there use to be one years ago but I can no longer find it
     
  4. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2006
    4,944
    opposite lock
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    Marc Sonnery

    Not only are the Citroen brakes very good but they can save your life and they did save the lives of many drivers of Maseratis thus equipped including factory test driver Giancarlo Martinelli so if a pro's life can be saved by them amateurs better pay attention.

    Only incompetent ignorant mechanics and tinkerers will criticize them.

    Giulio Alfieri, Maserati's head engineer, chose to ask for these brakes -they were NOT imposed by Citroen- as normal brakes could not cope with the ever greater power, speeds and weight of GT cars as the autostrada networks developed, years before speed limits were introduced due to the energy crisis.

    Indy's are the best value out there among ALL Modenese cars, a beautiful GT with four real seats and a trunk -so Madame cannot complain about lack of space for the rugrats or groceries- I rode many miles in them as a child and later drove one for a long time on a special day. Not as agile or quite as fast as a Khamsin but a great GT very much worth considering and BUYING.

    Best regards,

    Marc
     
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  5. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    143
    Belgium
    #5 Froggie, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
    I welcome your initiative, Ivan.

    I bought a very similar late Indy (1973, AM 116/49*2054*) more than a year ago.
    The car was partly sanded and disassembled at the time but was complete and is still under renovation in a shop specialised on nice Italian classic cars here in Belgium (a few notable issues such as finding a new windscreen as the current one was broken during reassembly, difficulties in polishing/rechroming parts, cooling and A/C circuits, recently also sourcing a new rear diff...).

    I was hoping to find on F-chat kind of catch-all or registry thread for Indy's but was disappointed to see that apparently these cars were not deserving such a thread, maybe because of their out of fashion status among Maseratisti...
    Maybe one of the reasons of my hesitant approach to open a full renovation thread here on F-chat, and only posting a few specific technical issues.

    I started instead a thread on http://www.maseratitude.com/ (the french classic/young community is lively) to show the renovation process, it is full of pictures, also english speaking, so foreigners are welcome to read and post:
    http://www.maseratitude.com/public_html/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=5656&sid=adc6bf8bbc34da8137f0822cae5cdc38

    A few pictures of the ongoing process:

    As first discovered for buying, disassembled but complete:

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    Engine bay full of dust from body sanding...:

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    Interior trim in quite good condition, including a "goose neck" period Blaupunkt:

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    Leather in perfect condition:

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    Respray:

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    Recored cooling rad and A/C rad:

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    Engine reconditioned.
    Full service with carbs refurbished, new coil and plugs, distrib, new hoses, belts filters, A/C converted to R134a, LHM braking reconditioned:

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    At this stage the car was close to completion, waiting for its new windscreen:

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    However, the rear diff had to be opened because of a leak.
    Discovery of a loose diff and broken bolts requiring exchange (see https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/loose-diff-and-sheared-bolt-s-on-indy-4900.597824/).
    See also two new fuel pumps electrically protected by relay:

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    Sourcing of a refurbished Salisbury 4HA LSD (from Jaguar, same fittings) to replace the original (red) open diff:

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    Completion of the renovation is now approaching, I am impatient of driving the car and certainly would encourage others to consider Indy's at still bargain prices!
     
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  6. Cmcwilliam

    Cmcwilliam Rookie

    May 3, 2015
    10
    London, UK
    I would agree - fab cars! The late ones with Citroen brakes and power steering are really excellent and useable cars.
     
  7. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Apr 22, 2006
    2,251
    Atlanta
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    The Car Nut
    According to Fabio of the total 1102 Indy made, the last 201 had the Citroen brakes with the "Khamsin style" 15 inch wheels and gearbox. I believe all 201 had the 4.9 liter engine and power steering.
    To me the Indy looks much better with the 15 inch wheels ... the 14 inch wheels look too small.

    Ivan
     
  8. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    143
    Belgium
    I thought there were only 200 LHM 4.9 Indy's and 99 with the normal brakes.
    Read there: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1973-indy4900-lhm-version-suspension-question.396705/page-4#post-143994605
    Close enough;)

    Wrt wheels, I agree on 15" vs 14".
    I would say that design-wise maybe 16" would fit even better (if not too bound by originality).
    See there: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/classic-maserati-modern-wheels.224404/page-4

    When my car comes back from restoration, I will try these period BBS RS wheels with 16" tyres:

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  9. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    The Car Nut
    On a 1973 Indy, I am running into an issue where the headlight buckets go up but will not come down. I've tested the motor and headlight toggle switch ... both are fine. The motor only has two wires and the way it works is that the polarity is reversed in order for the headlight buckets to go up or down. If we were to label the motor wires "A" and "B" .... in the up position "A" has 12 volts while "B" in grounded. In the down position "A" is grounded and 'B" has 12 volts. The problem in this car is in the down position "B" has 12 volts but "A" is open; while it should be grounded.

    The Indy wiring diagram shows a relay (item 108) which is labeled "Antireturn relay for switching off headlights". What is the purpose of this relay and where is it located? Any help would be appreciated.

    Ivan


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  10. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    143
    Belgium
    Ivan,
    I have asked to my mechanic.
    He told me it is in the engine bay on one of the sides.
    So I assume it may be one of the two black head relays that you can see on the front left side of the bay (here on top right of the pic):

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  11. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    Good guess ... but those are not it. Those are for the radiator fans; one for the left and the other for the right. I've looked and can't see another relay on the engine bay sides.

    I am familiar with the Ghibli's headlight system but the Indy has a totally different setup.

    Ivan
     
  12. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    350
    Toronto
    Incredibly hot , love what you have done there
     
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  13. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    143
    Belgium
    #13 Froggie, Jun 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
    The EU market for Indy's has also seriously cooled down.

    This beautiful late 4.9 was sold for only 60 k€ by RM Sotheby's at the Essen fair in April 2019.
    https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/es19/essen/lots/r0004-1974-maserati-indy-49/726610

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    Prices for such a model in the EU were more in the 100k range a couple years ago...

    And that 4.7 one, also nice, sold for only 48 k€ by Bonhams in Paris on Feb 2019:
    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25339/lot/324/

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  14. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    362
    Similar to what I just wrote in the Ghibli thread, the first link is to another car in need of restoration according to the advert.
    The second US spec car has so much wrong with it that I don't know where to start!


    Regards.
     
  15. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    143
    Belgium
    I think it is not possible to find a "perfect" Indy, or a really well restored one on the market taking account of the current values.
    The Indy market prices would only justify the costs of a limited restoration, I mean no more than 20-30k for a new paint on a sound body and a mechanical recommissioning.
    I have the feeling that e.g. the Indy sold at Essen is such a case. Of course subject to inspection before buying...

    That is not the same for Ghibli's because they can sell at twice the price of Indy's, so that even a non runner with need of body and mechanical restoration such as the one to be auctioned by Artcurial (see Ghibli thread) may justify restoration costs worth 50-100 k.

    Btw, I would be curious that you elaborate on what is wrong for the Indy sold in Paris
     
  16. alfieri107

    alfieri107 Karting

    Dec 4, 2011
    145
    What do you mean by "the first link is to another car in need of restoration" ? The link shows the decribed marrone one, which is a 2 owner car, completely original. Right, it has not been used , but it hardly needs a full restoration. And what makes you think that the second car is US spec, as it was delivered in France? And please tell us what you think is wrong with this car.
     
  17. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    362
    To clarify:

    Ad states car is 'wearing MAJORITY of its original paint and original interior...not been driven for several years...requires recommissioning'

    English translation: Car requires a new paint job and serious interior refurbishment. The car is a non-runner, engine and transmission are in an unknown state.
    In my book that is a car you purchase for a serious restoration and pray you get lucky with the engine!

    Regarding the second car I understand your point regarding the US steering wheel being also used on French spec cars and stand corrected.
    Regarding condition I find the interior refurbishment quality of leather, seat stitching and color discrepancies shoddy and the available detail e.g front trunk shut lines, driver side door rubber etc. indicative of, at the very least, of haphazard maintenance.

    Just my 2 cents!

    Regards.
     
  18. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    143
    Belgium
    Obviously nothing can be taken for granted when you buy a car that was not driven for years and without knowing what you can find under the paint...
    If may recall my case, I bought the car here under as a project, just being sanded/primed after having been stored for 30 years.
    The car was however said to be complete, the engine was turning and had good compressions, LHM spheres had been just refurbished, gearbox and clutch looked OK and interior trim was quite new.
    But no more, so a real bet...

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    When a full paint was undertaken (hoping for no bad discoveries) only a few limited rusted areas that had been badly repaired and/or hidden under filler were discovered, like this one:

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    They were professionally repaired.
    See e.g. the work of a skilled old school welder on that one:

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    Mechanical recommissioning also was fortunate enough with only a loose diff, need to recore the cooling and A/C rads and to change the fuel pumps being the main issues apart from a full service including belts, fluids, filters, hoses, distribution and carbs reconditioning.
    The car is now nearly ready to take the road again, just waiting for a new windscreen that was infortunately broken by the shop.
    A first drive showed a few small leaks under the engine and gearbox, but nothing alarming if we consider the long period of rest. Of course only extended driving will confirm that everything is in good order.
    In total, the restoration work by a specialised Ferrari/Maserati shop costed about 15k EUR (10k for the body + 5k for the mechanics), which looks to me very reasonable.

    I believe that the car sold in Essen looks at least as good as mine when I bought it.
    As a late 4.9, I would have happily bought it at that price if I hadn't mine already.
    Of course subject to close inspection (as possible, as I did for mine) before bidding, and enough luck concerning the body and the engine...

    Regarding the car sold in Paris, I think that the price was a bargain, the quality of panels fitting and refurbishment being quite good when compared to others.

    Just my opinion;)
     
  19. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2010
    522
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Mark Oliver
    The silver car, chassis 870 was owned by Ludovic, who was quite active on the Maserati forum here. I always got the impression that the car was very nice. It had previously been offered via Enrico’s site for considerably more so I concur that it may represent something of a bargain for its new owner. Certainly more than the RHD dark blue 4.7 project car on eBay last year. That sold for about £14k I understand. No one will be making a profit on it for sure.

    I was trying to attach a photo, but I keep getting ‘security error’ no idea why.
     
  20. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    143
    Belgium
  21. alfieri107

    alfieri107 Karting

    Dec 4, 2011
    145
    I tried hard and scrutinized every single picture of the silver one, but I really can't find any of the faults you describe.But then maybe I am not such a perfectionist. Are we talking about the same car? Would be interesting to hear from the new owners what really has to be done on these cars.
     
  22. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    362
    I am fascinated and honored by the responses my original comment has solicited!

    There are cars and then there are cars; there are restorations and then there are restorations; there is professional work and enthusiastic work carried out by inspired/loving owners!
    As a Maserati GT fan all is good in my book!

    BTW you are absolutely right.
    I am a pathological perfectionist---and proud of it!

    I thus long for the day when Boras Khamsins and Indys will be judged by the standards of the period Ferraris---which suffer, IMO from significantly inferior build quality and drivability.

    Just my 2 cents distilled from 35 years of having owned many of them.
    No further comments.

    Thank you all.
     
  23. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2010
    522
    London UK
    Full Name:
    Mark Oliver
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    Here is the project car I referred to earlier.....
    Could be lovely, but the owner would be MUCH poorer afterwards.....

    Best to all.

    M
     
  24. vlasic ludovic

    vlasic ludovic Karting

    Apr 13, 2015
    57
    Nice France
    Full Name:
    Vlasic ludovic
    Hi all,

    Just to answer about the INDY 116/47/870.

    It was my car, i have restored it. I sold it, because 2 Maserati was quite too much for me.

    So, i stay with my 3500.

    Of course it's a bargain, but i am also quite happy with the price.

    Best for all.

    Ludovic
     

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