Maserati Khamsin | Page 104 | FerrariChat

Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

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  1. ApexOversteer

    ApexOversteer F1 Veteran

    Feb 15, 2007
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    T.A. Bell
    Saw a silver Khamsin preceeding a gaggle of late-model Masers up to The Dragon/US129 this afternoon. What a presence that car has. Made a much bigger impact on the people watching, than the chrome bumper Pantera that was a few cars back in line...
     
  2. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
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    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello Apex......

    I was reading your post and realized you were talking about me and my car!!
    Yes, yesterday (Saturday) afternoon, The Maserati Club:Southeast Chapter
    (Tennessee contingent) did a summer drive... We started in Kingston, TN,
    had lunch in Sweetwater, drove the FootHills Parkway, and ended up in
    Knoxville for dinner... It was a very very enjoyable day...

    You must have seen me go by while on 129 heading to the FootHills parkway...

    We get together often and do quite a few drives... PM me if you are interested in
    joining us!!

    Mike
     
  3. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    #2578 au-yt, Jul 7, 2011
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  4. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    Very cute Graeme you can give the Terrier a frame off restoration too:)

    Speaking of restoration I am happy to say that AM12US1230 the yellow Khamsin project and ex Car & Driver cover car has now been sold to Germany and will soon head to Berlin, so one more Khamsin will get brought back to life: congratulations to the new owner or herzlichen gluckwunsch as they say!

    MS
     
  5. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #2580 Nembo1777, Jul 7, 2011
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    Hello all:

    Sorry for the delay: at long last here are the photos of AM120004 the Khamsin prototype which as mentioned I saw late May while visiting Holland. I hasten to specify that the car is not for sale, this is its life and specifications for the record.

    There was one car before it, AM120*002 which was a rough test mule in white with a longer tail though already with vertical glass, that car was destroyed in the crash test and had never been shown to the public.

    AM120*004 however as confirmed by Maserati in house historian Ermanno Cozza is the gold car photographed in the early fall of 1972 on the Avigliana golf course near Turin and Bertone’s headquarters by Gianbeppe Panico of Bertone for the famous press release photos, when it did not yet have the Maserati hood badge or the Maserati Khamsin chrome script on the back.

    It was the car presented on the occasion of the world premiere for the Khamsin at the Turin salon in October of 1972, on the Bertone stand as opposed to that of the factory, by which time it did have at least a Maserati hood badge. It is the only Khamsin ever built with chrome bumpers and is different from the production model in myriad details listed further on.

    After that it may have been used also in the Paris and or Geneva show, not sure yet. I did see tons of photos of it in a Parisian media agency several years ago with flowers behind the car (and different models posing with it!) but I still think they were Turin show photos.

    While it took two years for the Khamsin production model to come to market, due to the complexity of the Khamsin as well as the energy crisis that began with hellacious timing in October 73, 004 was eventually sold to its first owner a Dr Domenico Nicita in Arcireale Sicily.

    Then, at some point, it was painted black and -probably subsequent to a small parking lot collision- received a normal front bumper and a revised nose with the air vents, the slats being painted silver as opposed to body color. Considering the Sicilian heat and slow twisty roads it made sense. Mr Cozza confirmed just recently that had been done at the factory.

    It then went back to Sicily.

    Many years later, in 1997, it was advertised for sale by Dr Nicita and bought by a Dutch dealer who just kept it in his warehouse, all dusty, for a number of years until it was bought by Wil, a true Khamsin aficionado also in Holland.

    Here in successive posts are the photos: three of 1972 namely one of the golf course, two of the Turin show, those I took late May except the head on shot taken by Wil a year or two ago.
    Note the chassis number and neat numbers for the carrozzeria 500000 and autovettura (car production number) 25000.

    So what are the differences between 004 and a production car?

    Starting from the back: two small chrome bumpers as opposed to a big rubber one, the fuel filler is in the center behind the rear number plate which slides down (Wil made those Khamsin Prototipo II number plates) the underside of the car is different from a standard one (see one more photo from the 1972 golf course shoot) it then received a cover or cache which is screwed in place visible in the recent photo).

    The chrome surrounding the windows and their triangular prolongation is of much higher quality than on a standard Khamsin, the rear wheel arches are smooth, have no “lips” the sides of the inner trunk are different the back seat is completely different, the door inner panels, the dashboard is totally different, the car initially had a wooden steering wheel with drilled spokes but now has a normal Euro Khamsin wheel (which was no doubt believed to be more fashionable by the first owner at some point). Interestingly in the only period photo I have of the interior (that one was given me by Bertone in 2007 and will be reserved for the book, sorry!) the ventilation levers are above the radio and the gauges whereas now the radio is above the levers and gauges, other than that it is all exactly the way it was during the world premiere. As you can see the interior is just completely different. The nose as mentioned now has the vents and a normal front bumper, the engine heads and ancillaries are now out of the car but it was interesting to see other differences under the hood as well: the hydraulic tank and spheres being situated in reverse positions when compared to a production Khamsin. I am sure there were other differences in terms of installation and so forth.

    The gold paint can be seen in at least three places under the cheap and quick black paint job: on the hood where the black peeled off, at the edge of the engine bay and inside the cockpit on the inner surround of the rear windows.

    It was truly special for yours truly to see it, something I had wanted to do for years.
    As I mentioned in the trip report a month ago, something bugged me when looking at it and after an hour I finally figured it out: the door windows –and therefore the roof- are 8 or 9 milimeters lower in height (1/3 of an inch) something I was able to confirm by comparing the window height with a normal Khamsin an hour later, measuring at the back of the door. An adjustment lost in the mists of time, it was very satisfying to discover it, one wonders whose idea it was: Alfieri, Malleret, Nuccio Bertone, Gandini or perhaps tall chap X who sat in it at Bertone, the factory or at the show and complained...

    The great news is that Wil having been busy with other things –and being guilty of having too many cars:)- is now eager to get started with its restoration and bring it back to original color and specs....so watch this space or, hopefully, see it at Khamsin Quaranta next year:)!

    Enjoy the photos.

    Marc
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  6. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #2581 Nembo1777, Jul 7, 2011
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  7. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #2582 Nembo1777, Jul 7, 2011
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  8. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #2584 Nembo1777, Jul 7, 2011
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  9. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #2585 Nembo1777, Jul 7, 2011
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  10. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #2586 Nembo1777, Jul 7, 2011
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  11. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
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    Hi Marc

    That is just fantastic!. There are features on 004 I wish they had kept. I like the console, rear seats ( if you call them that) even the nose has the latter grill. Seats from a Merak/SM.

    The exit vets in chrome/ally do date it.

    Thanks for the pictures a real jem.

    Regards
    Graeme
     
  12. BartvanderWeiden

    BartvanderWeiden Formula Junior

    Nov 29, 2008
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    #2588 BartvanderWeiden, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Graeme,

    Different kinds of weather around the globe! We are enjoying the summer and priority goes more to sailing as to working on my cars.

    Today I went top less to my office in my Khamsin! Not too many people that can state that, allright?
    By the way, I am not trying to start a challenge here! :)

    Still some drops coming from my water pump shaft and some minor hydraulic drops but by now I know how much over time and know there is no immediate risk so I did a 40km run on my way back home. Carb tuning on my way and she starts to run smoother and smoother.
    Had some K-drivers here the other day and they were impressed about the smooth running and quietness of the engine, at idling RPM, I must add. As you may have taken from Marc's reports, we have quite a number of K-drivers around.
    The original Ansa system has a nice deep sound.
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  13. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    Graeme glad you liked 004, though I think the nose vents should be deleted in the restoration to bring it back to original configuration but perhaps it should get more (electric) fans for summer cooling.

    Bart great idea to photograph the engine from "upstairs" like that, that's a new angle to me!

    As you say driving is the best tuning:)

    best regards,

    MS
     
  14. BartvanderWeiden

    BartvanderWeiden Formula Junior

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    #2590 BartvanderWeiden, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello Marc,

    Yup, the birds eye view isn't something you can experience every day.
    What I like about the Khamsin is that it is so different from every angle and lighting situation. I attach a few extra, also from the engine compartment from a more familiar angle.
    The other day you raised a question about the rigidity of the body. Today I did some cornering and took bumpy roads whereby I kept my fingers on the gap between side window and "A" pillar: I can report very little flexing.
    I am particularly happy with the engine compartment although I am still working on another alternative for my expansion reservoir, to bring it up even higher than now.

    Bueno notte,

    Bart
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  15. BartvanderWeiden

    BartvanderWeiden Formula Junior

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    #2591 BartvanderWeiden, Jul 9, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Made some good improvements today.
    A friend allowed me to use his hoist and we started looking what caused the LHM leaks and consequential film/spread on the under side of the car. After a run and over night his would result in different oil spots on my garage floor.
    Two main causes: The return tube of the speed sensing valve on the rear suspension and the main one: the clutch slave cylinder. I remembered having read about this on the K thread but was not aware it could create such a mess.
    The leak tube was there but the oil decided to find its easiest way out alongside the adjustment bolt.
    I solved by turning some white teflon "plumbers tape" around threading and then pushed the rubber cover back in place. A small hose clamp to hold it in place. See picture.
    Ran the K in sun and rain for some 60 km this afternoon and this problem seems cured! Quite relaxing! What a difference in driving that is to my Ghibli, both 4,9L front engine but incomparable manners!

    Regards,

    Bart
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  16. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    Hi Bart:

    First of all glad that after this impromptu rigidity test you still have your finger.-)

    Congrats on sorting out your clutch leak with some creative thinking.

    MS
     
  17. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    Hi Bart

    well done! however the stop bolt I think goes in the other way around so the head hits the fitting.
    Does it feel any different?

    Graeme
     
  18. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

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    Hi All

    This is not something I would do with a Khamsin but...
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r51NAeZ5lI[/ame]


    Graeme
     
  19. BartvanderWeiden

    BartvanderWeiden Formula Junior

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    #2595 BartvanderWeiden, Jul 10, 2011
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    Hello Wil , Marc,

    Thanks for the publication!

    I knew I had seen those seats before and now they appear in Octane #98 in the Intermeccanica Indra, even in a very similar color. Nice seats!
    Cannot wait to see this car brought back to its original specs.
    Imagine that K#004 and my T-top (K#US1142) are just 20km away from one another.

    Good luck with the restoration Wil!

    Greame,

    Thx for the link: How to demolish a great car!
    I am a known as somebody that drives fast with his cars but always on torque and with all liquids warmed up. And I love to drift on a damp street on an early Sunday morning with no other traffic around.
    This one is over the edge and too much BUT the fact that the more than 30 year old car stands it, tells a lot about the design and build quality!

    Regards,

    Bart
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  20. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #2596 Nembo1777, Jul 10, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2011
    Good monring all:

    three things:

    -Interesting about the seats Bart...

    -I wish to respond to a statement by Walter denigrating US market cars in another forum thread since this concerns Khamsins as well.
    Of course Euro spec cars are more desirable and that is reflected in prices about (more or less) 20% higher but: once the bumper conversion is done a US car remains just as enjoyable as a Euro car and while the extreme example mentioned by Jörg: a US automatic (50kph slower top speed due to much lower gearing than US 5 speed and far lower gearing than Euro 5 speed) on the Autobahn is indeed as ill suited as a limousine would be for rallying. Again that is an extreme example. There are however few US automatic Khamsins in Europe though I have had several requests in the last couple of years which was not the case before. Essentially we are talking about US spec 5 speed Khamsins here.

    Doing the exhaust header conversion is not so expensive either (I personally did three bumper conversions even though I am not really interested in doing mechanical work) and after that you have a car that for all intents and purposes is just as good as a Euro car: if you want to delete the US sidelights it is easy to do in the course of a repaint I did it on my car with just local paintwork. AM120US1000 in Norway even had a Euro spec diff fitted. So the message is you can do as little or as much as you want, in your own time.

    We have a duty to protect the heritage of the marque we love and it is not constructive at all for anyone to shout negative comments on US market cars. That is an elitist commercial approach: what are we supposed to do: burn the US cars? Ridiculous.

    The funny thing is that it is Germany which has the biggest number of US spec Maseratis...

    I loved 1242 and given a trillion $ would buy it back as opposed to a Euro car: I mean that.
    It was my baby but beyond the emotional aspect I don't see it as inferior at all.

    Another point is that not all of us have unlimited funds and buying a US Khamsin is cheaper and you can sort out the matters listed above, if you wish, later.

    I draw the line at the bumpers: I would like to see zero cars with US bumpers at Khamsin Quaranta next June and I know of only two in Europe that still have them and might come.

    Regarding valuation there are a couple of Euro version Khamsins for sale, advertised or not, which are in the 80, 90K Euro range and a couple have changed hands at close to or around 100K Euros...fine if you want that and can afford to go for it.

    On the other end of the scale the God awful AM120US1214 I recently posted about would be, if it is complete and does not hide terminal problems, a very cheap base for a restoration which can be as elaborate as fits the buyer's wishes and budget.

    The Swedish project AM120US1230 which has now found a good home in Berlin will be reborn as it owner wishes and I can't wait to see that process and be of assistance to him!

    -Speaking of restorations here is a good photo gallery of the rebirth of AM120160 of Zurich which was recently restored near Modena in one of the best shops in the world: Bacchelli & Villa (who restore multi million dollar Ferraris) with the advice of another very knowledgeable Khamsin owner.
    Lucas the owner of 160 was one of the owners attending our Khamsin Zurich meeting of August 22nd and seeing the best cars there set him thinking: here is the result!

    https://picasaweb.google.com/gysori/AutosportIt?authkey=Gv1sRgCLTM1PyfypKBtQE&feat=email#

    Another of the cars present at that 8 car meeting has since received quite a bit of work, actually two of them.

    In other related positive news there is also a Scandinavian who is right now dilligently examining Khamsins to buy one and bring it up to the highest standards: it is very satisfying to see these cars being reborn, be they Euro or US spec!

    best regards,

    Marc
     
  21. BartvanderWeiden

    BartvanderWeiden Formula Junior

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    #2597 BartvanderWeiden, Jul 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    "it is very satisfying to see these cars being reborn, be they Euro or US spec!"

    best regards,

    Marc[/QUOTE]

    Hi Marc and all other Khamsinisti,

    Marc, do not get to exited about the US bumpers: matter of old time legislation and personal taste. If one observes the amount of silicone being applied at that side of the ocean, bumpers are a special subject anyhow:)
    Yesterday Michel visited me with K#136 and his freshly rebuilt engine and touched up body and resprayed front bumper. The car looks very nice and I love the blue color. The engine is very quiet, runs smoothly and picks up very well, on the cam!
    We spent some time to drive eachothers cars, remarkable differences. My clutch bites more and 136's brakes are even more solid, may have to bleed mine and need to check my carbs again on the smooth pick up. My car on original Ansa has a warm deep sound, his has more the organ pipe tuning of my G, sounds great!
    Marc, you would have loved this session! We were happy we spotted the speed checks in time, we hope. Let's check the mail carefully....
    Happy that I only have some miniscule oil spots under the car over night now, after my slave cylinder repair and that the waterpump was gracious to me by curing its own leakage after a good hundred kilometers, saves a lot of work!!

    Have a great week,

    Ciao,

    Bart
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  22. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    Thanks for the observations and photos Bart, seems you had a great day always interesting to compare.

    236 (not 136) has an interesting shade of blue which works very well,

    best regards,

    Marc
     
  23. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Great photos and info lately guys. Keep up the good work.
     
  24. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #2600 Nembo1777, Jul 16, 2011
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    Just in case you ran out of orange juice this morning, here is a visual substitute:)

    No you are awake and these very nice, very evocative thirty year old photos did not fade, orange it is or arancione as they say in Modena.

    As far as I know there were two orange Khamsins, there might have been one or two more. The other one is quite well known since many of us are familiar with that period French article which featured AM120018. I have no idea of the whereabouts of 018.

    The photos of 156 shown here had been promised to me for years by a well known director of a major British auction company. He finally found them. This was his father's car in London when new, though left hand drive as he drove on the continent a lot. There were extremely few automatics in Europe, a handful as right hand drive but lhd like this is very rare. With that color it makes it absolutely unique.

    The car was sold...in red... by Bonhams at a Nurburgring auction some years ago, 2000 I think and was recently for sale in the Benelux.

    While it is not necessarily the most suited color for a K it would be interesting to see one brought back to its original shade: there were so many different very attractive ones: just this week it emerged that one car that has been in a private collection, tucked away for a very long time, red, was in fact born tobacco, a very interesting color as well...

    best regards,

    Marc
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