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Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    7,783
    Bob, what mean is: when car was delivered new from the Factory with all -ugly & silly- US-specs, then it is original. This is also confirmed due to the VIN that clearly states "US". If a later owner decide to convert the car to EU specs -even when the result looks much better and sgows the genuine design- its NOT original anymore!

    Whatever you do with a car that was made for the US- market - it will always stay an US-car. An example. to convert a an US-Ferrari 328 with original b*****t-power to EU-specs is so difficult and cost a fortune. Same is with the Khamsin, Bora etc.!

    Of course its the easiest thing to get those stupid light out of the body but you can clearly see at the inner panels that it was made.

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  2. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Some let see if I understand this correctly.

    Of course if you remove the US equipment then it is no longer original. A blessing in this case.

    If a world buyer sees the car and it looks identical and runs identically to the European version then is it worth less than the European version?

    Would it be worth more left in original USA-only configuration?

    Bob S.
     
  3. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Bob, I am very sure that a EU-version of the Khamsin, Bora is more valuable on the market! Why? Because the market likes cars that a beautifull!

    I drove a US-Khamsin last year and found the performance significantly below of the EU-version.

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  4. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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    #29 toggie, Feb 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've always been a fan of the Khamsin design. But I don't know much about them.

    Is the Citroën type of hydaulically power-assisted speed-related steering system similar to the Citroën SM car?
    Also, what is the hydraulic braking system like to drive?

    They certainly look like a fast, luxurious GT.

    I like the Bertone design drawing:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Yes it is the SM system but it works beter in the Khamsin because the SM was too softly sprung for it. The first time you use the brakes in a Khamsin you will stand the car on its nose and kiss the windshield but if you are a decent driver you will soon learn the precision of the steering, brakes, the lightness of the clutch and that monumentally enjoyable engine and enjoy a car that makes it contemporaries seem vintage.
     
  6. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
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    Hershey, PA
    Walter,
    The US spec Khamsins are quicker than the Euro spec cars due to shorter ratios. However the US cars run out of revs real quick and only top out in the 130 mph range.

    Joe
     
  7. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    You didn't answer the questions Walter.

    As for the faster part, once again you didn't answer my question.

    Go back and read them again.

    I know you can do better than this.

    I'd like to hear an explanation of why if you have physically identical cars but one has a US VIN# it is worth less than the other. That situation is going to be pretty rare.
    Also, I doubt that given a choice a buyer would opt for the 100% original ugly bumpers version over the one which was euro-ized.
    If the car looks and drives correctly (performance) I don't think the US serial number is going to dissuade them. There aren't that many nice examples.

    Bob S.

    Bob S.
     
  8. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
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    Actually there is a difference in that most of the US cars that have been converted use aftermarket bumpers produced in fiberglass where as the factory original bumpers were made from the dense foamish material that was heavily used in the 70's.

    Will that make a difference to a buyer in the US? No. Will that make a difference to a European buyer? Probably. Since it is going to be a long time before a Khamsin has a chance to win anything at Pebble Beach, it is not really going to matter on the show car front. Most events are lucky to get a Ghibli yet alone a Khamsin. The most we ever had at Pocono was 4 in one year. (3 were silver). I don't remember there ever being 3 at Concorso, maybe in 1988. Those are the 2 largest Maserati events in North America. I would assume that more than that would have been together at say the factory 90th Anniv. celebration in 2004?


    Joe
     
  9. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    7,783
    Bob,
    ...simply because the VIN confirms that the car was NOT on the power peaks like the EU-cars, traces of the conversions are visible underneath! I know of a US-Khamsin here in Germany. The car was in very good condition. I can`t tell you how often the car was offered for sale - its still with the owner. All this US-specs turned the car down in value!

    Another example: a 4.9 Ghibli Spyder with auto-gearbox was for sale here in The Fatherland. The car was delivered new into the US. I never saw a restoration like this:
    FAN - TAS - TIC and for sure one of the 4 best Ghibli-Spyders on this planet. The price was OK. the color was great - everything was "on its best". But it did NOT sell. Why? Simply because it was converted to the standart 5-speed grarbox and diff.! It was a car with a "story"!

    Every US-Khamsin that underwent the conversion has "a story"! People who doesn`t care about VIN`s, provenance and history of such a classic Italian high-performance car might accept that. But a potential buyer -aka collector!!- cares very much about that and will always take the coice for a correct and original EU-car - a car in that original (!!) specification when it rolled out of the factory gates.

    Just my 2 cts!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  10. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    These Germans don't sound terribly bright then. There's simply no reason why a car originally speced for the USA market can't be made to perform properly.
    In fact, with the exception of those stupid thermal reactor headers and the air pump my car's engine was already tuned to the European specifications.
    The cams, jetting and distributor were spot on.

    The bumpers are another story though ... At least the Bora and Merak bumpers aren't as horrible as those on the Khamsin. They also work very well. But they have to go eventually.

    Given the enormous exodus of Maseratis from the USA over the last 15 years I think a lot of people are not having issues with USA vin #s. Automatics yes.

    My 3 cts and with the current exchange rate it's only 2 ...

    Bob S.
     
  11. Darthvader

    Darthvader Karting

    Jan 14, 2006
    145
    new york
    I believe that I purchased that car, since I bought a totally restored Khamsin
    red with beige interior from Bobileff, I think 3 to 4 years ago.
    I also have a Ghibli SS, also red and beige, restored.
    Both cars belonged to the same owner.
    These cars are very much undervalued, but it seems
    that the prices are moving up.
     
  12. Attitude928

    Attitude928 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    934
    NYC
    Any pics?
     
  13. Maeter

    Maeter Karting

    Nov 13, 2001
    136
    The car is back in London and I will post some new pictures tomorrow. In the meantime, I have question for those of you that are Khamsin owners: does your car sport a Bertone insignia between the door and front wheel? Mine does not but I am not certain it should be that way. Could somebody post a close-up of the insignia?

    The only modification I am thinking about implementing would be a set of passing lights, as with the driving lights in the closed position, there is nothing there to move traffic along (except the road horn, but mine does not work for the time being!) I did ask Mr. Cozza of Maserati but he replied that no Khamsins were fitted with passing light at the factory (unlike some Ghiblis.) Any views as to what would be appropriate for a 1977 car?

    Thanks in advance for all the reply,

    Pascal
     
  14. Darthvader

    Darthvader Karting

    Jan 14, 2006
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    new york
    #39 Darthvader, Mar 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. Darthvader

    Darthvader Karting

    Jan 14, 2006
    145
    new york
    #40 Darthvader, Mar 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    7,783
    Congrats to this fantastic collection of cars. But I thought there is a Ferrari-forum "somewhere" here....!

    We`re talking "Modenese"...not "Maranello".....

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  17. stevenwk

    stevenwk F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2007
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    Please post more pics of the Daytona and Boxer. They are stunning.
     
  18. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Oh boy... I cross the Atlantic anc Khamsin chaos, nonsense and hearsay ensues!

    I will try to straighten this bag of knots tomorrow right now I am too jet lagged, this key board is weird and have had a humungous French dinner so goodnight:)

    Marc

    PS: Emena: Congrats on the Khamsin but yes as the others mentioned there is far too much Ferrari coverage elsewhere so let us keep this thread focused on the Khamsin: you are lucky to have one of the best K's in the world I hope you drive it a lot!

    Maserati's are made in Modena those other cars are made in the suburbs! I said this to Marcel Massini and Roberto Vaglietti at Geneva Classics in October they lauhged abd somehow did not call security!
     
  19. Darthvader

    Darthvader Karting

    Jan 14, 2006
    145
    new york
    I know this is the Maserati side of the chat, and that there is Ferrari, Lamborghini etc.
    I just posted some of my cars, and most of them are italian, and the reality is that I like
    cars in general, and italians particularly.
    I still have some pictures of other italians - but there is also an Aston and a Bentley,
    which I will post soon, if you do not mind
     
  20. Darthvader

    Darthvader Karting

    Jan 14, 2006
    145
    new york
    some more pictures
     
  21. Attitude928

    Attitude928 Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
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    #46 Attitude928, Mar 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  22. Maeter

    Maeter Karting

    Nov 13, 2001
    136
    #47 Maeter, Mar 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes that him and that me in the Stradale :)
     
  24. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Hmmmmm, I reconize all of these cars except the Maseratis. How come you haven't brought the Maserati's out to the Le Belle Macchine event?
    We could use both of them there. Too many Ferraris and Lamborghinis, if that's possible.

    Bob S.
     
  25. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Of course you're not related or anything ...
     

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