Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Jack Verschuur
    Ivan, I think most Khamsins came from the factory with the smog-pump, but the Euro-cars had speghetti headers and no thermal reactors. I have yet to see the arrangement and what the bracket looks like on a not so equipped Khamsin.
    I suppose it was Maserati's way of showing the authorities they were doing their part to keep the environment clean.
    Euro cars have the 2 vac valves, but I think the capsule on the distributor is an advance rather than a retard mechanism.
    I have not tested this, but assume that one of the vac switches is governed by the micro-switch on the rearmost carb to cut vacuum to the capsule on the distributor at idle. The switch would simultaneously engage the clutch of the smog-pump so the gasses out of the exhaust smell like roses and the pump doesn't drag idle speed down?

    Best,
    Jack.
     
  2. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    I want to make sure my vacuum article is technically accurate. I will change it to reflect that both USA and Euro cars have two electromagnetic valves. I need the help of someone with a Euro Khamsin to determine if the second valve is used to retard or advance timing at idle.
    An easy test is to connect a small vacuum hose to the distributor. Start the engine and run at idle. Now apply vacuum (suck on the hose with your mouth). If the rpms go down, then it is retarding .... if they go up then it is advancing.
    Ivan
     
  3. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2010
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  4. staatsof

    staatsof Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'd be surprised if the vacuum was utilized via an electromechanical switch and solenoid to advance the ignition at idle. That's a rather Rube Goldberg or Heath Robinson (for our English friends) method of accomplishing something that's traditionally been done in a far simpler manner with just a vacuum pod. A more typical distributor would solve that far more simply. And why advance at idle? The retard system releases the vacuum slowly so as to not act like a switch in the advance curve. But it does switch like things anyway with small amounts of throttle whilst tootling around parking lots and such. Annoying. It also delays maximum acceleration results when the pedal is to the metal. Good reasons for abandoning it altogether. It does however yield a very smooth idle though when calibrated as designed.

    But it will be good to hear about the results of your research. I've been wrong before ... :)
     
  5. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
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    Hi Ivan,

    Arrangement on a RHD car. The first image is the vacuum reservoir on my car.

    In the second image the top solenoid is for the distributer and the lower one goes to the interior. The output hose from the top one is currently plugged and not connect to the distributer.

    I've not had a chance to do your test but if I do over next few weeks I'll post the results.

    Bal
     
  6. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula Junior
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    Aug 14, 2008
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    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello Bal...

    Interesting, your picture of the vacuum reservoir..

    It looks more like the vacuum reservoirs found on the Biturbo and QPIII...

    Mike
     
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  8. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
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    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for that info. I assume it's original but in reality have no idea. My car was built in 1980, but have never had cause to compare this item on other cars. Wonder if Jack's is the same...

    Cheers

    Bal
     
  9. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    I'll have a look at the dizzy and the vac cannister on monday.
    Bal, the way I see it you're running without vac advance.

    Best,
    Jack.
     
  10. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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  11. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
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    Balbir
    Hi Jack,

    When I first got the car the vac line to the dizzy was disconnected and plugged.
    When the engine was rebuilt the guys reinstated all the connections as per factory manuals.
    When the guys tuned the car on the rolling road they couldn't get their heads around the vacuum stuff as Ivan has done so and to get a steady state of tune tapped a vacuum line before the reservoir that is connected to the dizzy. So whatever the vacuum is doing, advance or retard it's on permanently.
    I think some more investigation is needed to first make sure the systems are working as per Ivan's write up so that the factory set up can be reinstated. Though with the way the rolling road guys set things up the power was pretty near on the nail.

    Cheers

    Bal
     
  12. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
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    Hi Ivan,

    That's one classy looking car you have there.

    Bal
     
  13. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Ivan, Bal,

    The Euro distributor has an advance vac capsule, not a retard as per US spec. Checked on my car #435

    Bal, I misunderstood your previous message and was under the impression that you had nothing connected to the distributor.
    My vac cannister looks different from #433: it is in the same location, but is black and feels like plastic, but it is somewhat obscured by hoses and the like, and due to its' colour hard to photograph. I did take some, but I'm out of space here, can send them per email and someone can post them. if they are of any help.

    Best,
    Jack.
     
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  15. awohlmann

    awohlmann Karting

    Jul 6, 2008
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    Alfred Wohlmann
    Hi Mark,
    did you already get a request to your question ?
    I am interested in the condition of this car ?
    saluti
    Alfred
     
  16. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
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    Balbir
    Hi Jack,

    The one on 433 also appears to be plastic. No worries about the misunderstanding and thanks for clarifying it's an advance.

    If you want ping the pictures across as you have my email.

    Bal
     
  17. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
    243
  18. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie
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    Hello Richard,

    Yes I saw 332 3 years ago in a very large and private Belgian collection in the Flemish part of the country, including 20 F1 cars, another Khamsin, lots of very nice 60's and 70's Italian GT's and incredible memorabilia, typically it did not get much use. One of my clients considered the car a few years ago. The color new if I recall correctly was Tabacco which is very handsome, same as Ivan's car shown a few posts above.

    Best regards,

    Marc
     
  19. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Ivan, I forgot to mention what a beautiful car you have there!

    Best,
    Jack.
     
  20. rga

    rga Karting

    Jul 14, 2012
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    Switzerland
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    Roger the Dodger
    Hello Richard

    332 sold for 158'000 EUR +17% commission = 184'860 + 21% VAT = 223'680 EUR
    so not a bargain anymore

    Best regards
    Roger
     
  21. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    261
    It seems that the 21% VAT is only charged over the 17% commission, which still means an impressive 190k including costs.

    For a car that (as I understand from Marc) does not have the original colour, and that (according to the text at vavato.com) has not been on the road for 32 years.
    But on the other hand not many owners and still in the country where it was sold new.
     
  22. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    261
  23. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2010
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    Looks super. Is this perhaps the previously silver and mis stamped chassis car from the RM sale in Milan??

    M
     
  24. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie
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    Hello AMLC, Mark,

    That is not 032, the Milan Due mille ruote auction car, it is 136 the only K sold new to Venezuela, which later languished 10 years in a French barn in very poor shape as you can see here.
    This Dutch shop has been restoring it for a Swiss client, don't know him. I saw the shell already painted when I visited the shop near Utrecht last December.

    It dos have one thing in common with 032 though, its identity had been tampered with long ago, most probably when it entered Venezuela due to tax reasons. It had as chassis number AM115.392 which of course would make it a Ghibli. In the end the fact that it had engine 136 and that that is the chassis number of the only car having been sold in that country and the fact that the cars in the French barn came from Venezuela confirmed it as 136.

    Interestingly when I once asked a man who used to be the Ferrari importer for Spain, Juan Quintano, what Khamsins he knew of in his country he said a former president of Venezuela general Marcos Perez Jimenez (statue photo below, according to his bio he seemed to be the typical banana republic despot) used to have one, in Spain..so could it be this one? Possibly...the tampered chassis numbered fits the character of the general. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login ...

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  25. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie
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    Now for something I have been meaning to post for several days: a wonderful video of the 80th anniversary of Maserati in 1994 in Italy, found by a friend (merci!), a factory touring rally in the Dolomites, down to the east coast and then on to the factory. Oh and to gently tease the wrench brigade: notice how there is 0% tech and 100% driving (and wining and dining just like I like it:))
    Can you spot the Khamsins? How many, in what color...then we can worry about chassis number identification:) I am sure of two chassis numbers and think I know two more.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQHtcvJY-e0

    Enjoy!

    Marc
     
  26. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    261
    Wow, that must have been a great event. Many, many cars (including A6's, a 5000 GT, classic racing cars) and people (including Giulio Alfieri) in top locations.
    Tech is not completely absent, I did see some engines, beautiful classic Maserati engines!

    I think I saw 7 Khamsins:
    Silver, Swedish (with US indicators?)
    White, with a strip at the side
    Red, Swiss, from BE (Berner Oberland)
    Dark blue, white leather, Swiss
    Black, UK?
    Black, Austria
    Gold, UK?
    .
     
  27. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie
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    Yes and Gigi Viloresi, Maria Teresa de Filipis, Adolfo "Rasputin" Orsi junior before he went for the beard.
    Hmmm I did not see a black UK car but will look again. The Swedish US type car was-logically enough- in a Swedish magazine article and the white German car with rubber stripe on the side is the one with fuel injection (not factory). The dark blue Swiss one I think I know which it is, need to check the number plates, the black car from Austria I have had photos of for years but not sure of actual identity.
    The mystery for me is which gold car the rhd is...it could be the Pardo car. Heading to bed now but will check all that tomorrow.
     

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