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Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Marc Sonnery
    #7301 Nembo1777, Jul 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
    Hi Bal,

    Yes that is the link where I found the photo, there are also nice old ads with K drawings.

    That Khamsin is AM120429, a car that was owned by Lord Anthony Bamford, it is one of two K's he has had, the other one s/n unknown was silver and is on the cover of one of the Maserati books with a Birdcage etc.
    I saw the car at the 2012 Monaco Coys auction, complete with a bird's nest in the engine bay! Then just as I discovered that intersting approach to prepping cars for auction (!), one of the Coys sign letters from the sign just above fell on me! Thankfully it was in styrofoam and no I had not touched it...but yes, I thought I was in the Fawlty towers auction:).

    It did not immediately sell at that auction but was thereafter bought by a Brit who had it repainted (last photo). he has two K's the other one is a challenging project car, not sure how far he has come with that one, hint would love some news if he is reading this, hello and thanks in advance.

    Best regards,

    Marc

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  2. rga

    rga Karting

    Jul 14, 2012
    175
    Switzerland
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    Roger the Dodger
    Hello Marc

    If you refer to the cover below, than the second car of Lord Anthony Bamford would have been AM120-305, as it says in the inside flap of this book.

    But now you made me curious; I thought 305 was also celeste chiaro, but colours are sometimes difficult to judge.

    If it was silver, as you said, it could well be the same as HGM 22 N, written about in Motor 06/75, and that one according to the text is automatic.
    Moreover 305 was on auction at BCA on August 11th 1997 (it does not say if Manual or Automatic) but with still another registration: KEH 689 N.

    As we have learnt from Paul the N at the end says something on the year of the car which was reported in the auction as being 1975 as well.

    So "260 KC" "HGM 22 N" and "KEH 689 N" could all be the same car, and resolve a few misteries at one shot.

    Best regards
    Roger
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  3. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2009
    262
    Birmingham, UK
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    Balbir
    Hi Roger,

    Car registrations in the UK are as Paul described. The only way a car would end up with 2 different N suffix (denoting 1975) is if a private ( ie dateless) plate had been out on the car in between. Unlike the present where a cars original Plate is reallocated if a private plate is taken off a car, Early cars such as these are allocated random date related registration numbers by the authorities. So in your example the sequence of the plate allocation would need to be known to understand if it’s the same car unless the chassis is known.

    Hope that helps.

    Bal
     
  4. rga

    rga Karting

    Jul 14, 2012
    175
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    Roger the Dodger
    Hi Bal

    Thanks for your clarifications.
    So the car should first have been registered as HGM 22 N, do the press report for Motor in or before June 1975,
    then receive private plates 260 MC and be photographed on location courtesy Anthony Bamford, before publication of the book
    in October 1975, and later on have plates reallocated to it KEH 689 N before being sold at auction in 1997.

    In theory that could work out, but then there is still 303 (and others) unaccounted for...

    Best regards
    Roger
     
  5. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2009
    262
    Birmingham, UK
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    Balbir
    Yep Roger that could be a correct sequence of registration plates if it’s the same chassis.

    Bal
     
  6. series1

    series1 Rookie

    Apr 10, 2007
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    Leamington Spa
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    Mark Butler
  7. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    298
    Very interesting! I didn't know that more cars were made with a dashboard like this, it looks similar to the dashboard in #004.

    Some German words on one of the plates, maybe original delivery in Germany?

    I bet Marc is already on the plane to South Africa!
     
  8. rga

    rga Karting

    Jul 14, 2012
    175
    Switzerland
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    Roger the Dodger
    Hi AMLC

    012 was originally delivered to Auto König in Munich hence the german plate, just repeating the chassis number and denoting the total weight and front and rear axle load .

    Looking at the Autovettura no 25002 it becomes clear this car has probably been built right after 004, the door trimmings are the same too, unlike 010 which has the same steering wheel, facia and dashboard, but different door trimming, and 008 looks already like the later serial production regarding steering wheel, seats et al, unless these were later additions/upgradings.

    Best regards
    Roger
     
  9. Martin B

    Martin B Rookie

    Jun 14, 2018
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    Martijn Baeten
    Hi Guys

    Whats your take of the original finish on the campi wheels? Did Maserati fill in the bad castings from the factory?or where they painted whit these imperfections?

    Greetings Martijn


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  10. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    My Bora's (78) wheels were pretty nicely finished, they still are. The early ones even had a polished lip. That leads me to beleive that they were much higher quality castings than the Campys found on Miuras, Jaramas and Espadas. The later Lamborghini wheels are another story.

    I did refinish the ones on my Espada. Those are absolute crap by comparison. They are without a doubt a very beautiful design but after stripping them I found numerous areas when bondo had been utilized to eliminate casting imperfections. They never got them all though. Even some of the smaller vane details in the original casting were bent or misinformed. I think that was a hard wheel to produce for them at that time.

    Some Miura restorers using modern aluminum replica wheels actually beat the wheels up a bit before painting them so that they don't look so perfect.
     
  11. Martin B

    Martin B Rookie

    Jun 14, 2018
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    Martijn Baeten
    Dear Staatsof

    Here are some pictures of the wheels. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Is this the finsh you have on the Espada?

    Greetings Martijn


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  12. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    No not at all. That DOES look more like what my Espada's wheels looked like once stripped. I can understand your displeasure. Have those now been powder coated?

    If you get a chance to see a pre 1975 Bora's wheels you will see that the last 1/2"? of the rim is polished and very well finished. Maybe they put them on a lathe after casting to clean & polish them up then painted them?

    Here's how my Espada's wheels looked and some of the filling I had to do. I didn't try and go for a perfection surface the egrious stuff was filled as you can see. Other lousy look edges were left as casted.

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  13. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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  14. Martin B

    Martin B Rookie

    Jun 14, 2018
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    Martijn Baeten
    This is a primer.my standard procedure is making everything smooth as a whistle,no pin holes,so the metallic comes out superb,but in this case i have to go authentic as possible.
    So im curious how the rim’s on restored khamsin’s look.
    Maybe the rim’s on the 1102 where exposed to the element’s for too long,explaining the extreme pitting.


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  15. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I primed mine with green zinc chromate, plenty of it. But I also did a magnesium alloy conversion treatment both before I used a Bondo like filler called "Icing", it's more spreadable just like cake icing is. I treated them with the conversion treatment again afterward because of the sanding.

    The paint is a single stage enamel just like it was originally. No clear coat.

    My Bora wheels weren't this rough but they certainly weren't like a modern wheels either. They still look too good to touch so I really don't know what's under them.
     
  16. flo

    flo Rookie

    Mar 20, 2014
    13
    hello roger,
    thanks for your comments about my car, it was an interesting journey..
    i have a question:
    are there period fotos of 012 ? could be the first car with vented nose ..
    best regards florian


     
  17. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
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    BTW, if I had to do it all over again I'd have bought the perfect looking reproduction Miura wheels from Eurospares and kept the originals, unrestored, as authentic spares. At the time it would have been about the same cost, even doing it myself, and taken way less time. Those wheels are a real PITA to bead blast and then the amount of prep work was phenomenal. Best of luck with your project. Bob S.
     
  18. rga

    rga Karting

    Jul 14, 2012
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    Roger the Dodger
    Hello Flo

    I have only photos which are recent as well, so I cannot tell you if the vented nose was added afterwards,
    but I suppose so. The auction description specifically states, that the vented nose was introduced around 1977
    with '2nd series' cars. There are no 2nd series cars, but changes were introduced during production life.
    So I think they mean the car was converted later in ist life.

    Best regards
    Roger
     
  19. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    I seem to remember reading that 012 started out as a factory demonstrator and was only sold to Koenig later. Used as a demonstrator at Koenig too (again, from memory). Is it possible that the car was updated with the later nose in '77 and then left for Germany? I also believe it was a different colour then. Perhaps Fabio Collina could shed some light.

    Best,

    Jack.
     
  20. Otto Paulsen

    Otto Paulsen Karting

    Dec 9, 2009
    51
    Europe

    Roger,
    this is interesting. What knowledge do you have about the Autovettura numbering? Is it the Bertone numbers for the bodies produced by them? In which position of the line would 25004 turn up?
    Best, Otto
     
  21. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    #7322 Nembo1777, Aug 11, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2018
    Hi Carmine, staying out of trouble;-)?!

    In haste as I am trying to stay offline and enjoy the summer: stolen car with erased chassis number on chassis, missing chassis and doorjamb plates, false plate in windshield stating it is 1184.

    No it is not. 1184 was dismantled and the remains very rusty, sold to a junkyard in the eastern US while its engine was sold to Canada for a Ghibli: its former owner confirmed that to me.

    After sending someone to see it and take photos (thanks Michael) I presented the evidence to Fabio Collina of Maserati Classiche at the factory.
    Fabio's response was that according to the carrozzeria and autotelaio numbers it would be 1244...those plates are still there. But they could have been grabbed off a dead car...I have no data on 1244 (funnily enough one car after my ex 1242). Fabio stated that because this car has had its identity DELETED the Maserati factory could NOT recognize it. End of story.

    Its destiny is thus most uncertain: track hot rod? Parts? It cannot be registered legally and honestly.

    I have communicated with BHCC, one of the principals, they have all this information which is why the price is so abnormally low...

    Someone should buy it and make it a track car: with less weight K's are already very fast as is so lightened it would be VERY fast. The handling is brilliant and the brakes just do not fade.

    Another stolen Khamsin has resurfaced for sale discreetly (I am NOT involved with that either): I could not believe it, after years of looking for it AM120US1260 has emerged in the northeast. It was stolen decades ago from an older man called Al Skolnick (not some musician with that same name) who contacted me 11 years ago. He explained that New Jersey police did not seem to care...

    You can find more on 1260 if you google inside this thread, I wrote quite a bit about it as I met the thief or the possessor of the car several times and he would never give me the chassis number...

    More on this when I have communicated with those who hold the car.

    Best regards,

    Marc
     
  22. MK1044

    MK1044 F1 World Champ
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    Hello Marc! All is well here. I hope with you also.

    Well another stolen car. What a shame. I can't see that it has any value at all, being in legal limbo.

    I remember also that we corresponded about the Skolnick car a while back. On that hunch I went to look at that red Khamsin owned by the music devil in northern New Jersey, thinking that maybe . . .

    Any new writing? Car books, novels? Enjoy your summer!
     
  23. Khamsin2012

    Khamsin2012 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2013
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    Southampton
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    Ben Webb
     
  24. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    195
    Belgium
    For curiosity:
    What is the legal status of a car stolen years/decades ago which is resurfacing somewhere and whose new owner may not know (let's assume it) that its was stolen when he bought it?
    e.g. 1260
    Previous owner being still alive or his heirs being made aware: could they reclaim the car and the current owner being condemned?
     

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