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Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. 010

    010 Rookie
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    May 19, 2009
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    Richard
    Thank you Ivan. Yes .. i found the pressure switch for the headlights mounted on the driver side front wheel fender.. when jumped it certainly lights everything up. Everything behaves in the front as I think it should.... except the high beams do not turn on no matter what position the steering wheel stalk position is in. I did find btw, that the outer regular headlight pods both have three female connectors available...although each bulb is only single filament (only two terminals). I wonder what the third or extra in each is for? Perhaps a dual filament bulb was in the original design...or they just had spare parts with three. The third one (short black) btw in each is simply another ground wire which is directly connected to the pod body.... the inner pods (closer to then centre of the car) only have two connectors.

    I will look tomorrow for the reverse switch...perhaps a reverse connection...and/or bad ground. An example... I originally found one headlight connected instead to the high beam connector so the high beams when triggered would blow a fuse. Simple fix (plug them jnto the correct wire connector... but why did they use the same connectors for different light functions... I guess these are the nuances.....or cost savers..

    Any ideas where that big connector block is on the left side of the large wiring diagram? I had it printed on a 3 foot x 4 foot sheet and laminated . Much easier to see the details and trace wires on it... i just wish they indicated where certain items were in the car. I think my nexg version will become colour coded for simplicity of visual tracing.
    Thanks again,
    Richard

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  2. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    The outer bulbs should have three terminals. If they only have two terminals then someone installed the wrong bulbs. Does your car have sealed beams or removable bulbs? When the low beam is on one filament in each outer bulb lights up. When the high beam is on then both filaments in the outer bulbs light up, plus the inner bulb filaments.

    The high beams are turned on by rotating the knob on the stalk. If that does not work then it is most likely a bad connection within the knob. Also check the high beam fuses as they tend to loose connection because of the high amperage; make sure the fuses are nice and clean. Working with the stalk is a delicate operation that can get very expensive if you are not careful. Also be aware that the low beams do not have a relay but the high beams do. You should hear a relay click when you rotate the knob. If the relay clicks and the high beams do not turn on then you know that the problem is somewhere else and not in the stalk ... which would be a very good thing.

    Ivan
     
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  3. 010

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    May 19, 2009
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    Hi again. I am about to get to the car now..but after a bit viewing my manuals again. I believe as my car is very early that although it has three wires for the outer front headlight pods.. it may not have left the facfory with dual filament bulbs (not sealed units to answer your question). This car is all original and the manuals all refer ONLY to single filament bulbs for replacement. The wiring diagram also shows only two wires... but it may be ignoring ground? The manual pictures all show bulbs separate from the glass (carello) housings they go into and all manuals refers to the exact same bulb in all four positions. Pics below show both pieces from passenger side for reference...
    I may be able to put dual filament bulbs.. but will test wiring to see if it can be done correctly without modification. Maybe my car was unique this way... How about the other very early ones out there i wonder...

    Stay tuned and thanks again Ivan.. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

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  4. 010

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    After a little testing and documenting...some discoveries.

    - with hydraulic pressure light switch shorted to enable power to lights without hyrdaulic pressure...
    - car is left hand drive and rotation perspective is from standing outside drivers door looking in
    - all other lights work as expected (except reverse which is next on my hit list once I raise the car up to get under it)

    A - When light stalk is in UPPER resting position rotated CLOCKWISE - regular headlights are on

    B -When light stalk is in UPPER resting position rotated COUNTER CLOCKWISE - regular headlights are on

    C - When light stalk is in LOWER resting position and rotated CLOCKWISE - no headlights ...OR... high beams are on - all headlights off

    D - When light stalk is in LOWER resting position and rotated COUNTER CLOCKWISE - both regular headlights ...AND... high beams are on

    Question One - Is the above bahaviour normal?

    Question Two - Is there a high beam flash MOMENTARY light stalk position? When the light stalk is in its upper position... there feels like a momentary flash position when lifting up... but it has no effect...

    Thanks for reading.. and any answers you can provide.
    Richard

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  5. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    I do not currently have a K in my garage and my memory is not so good to remember this level of detail :) Someone with a K is better qualified to answer your question.

    Ivan
     
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  6. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2006
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    Hello Richard,

    Glad Ivan and maybe some other tech experts are answering your questions. Just a thought though, you are a software guy and the intricately detailed nature of your questions reflects that very obviously...but don't forget that is is an Italian car built over 40 year ago, not a Japanese computer: at the end of he day you may not find all the answers because some may not exist...plus you must allow some mystery it is part of its charm:)
    My K like others had a tendency to drain its battery if left for over 24 hours, that is a well known phenomenon. Did I tear my hair out trying to find the ghost in the machine the deep somewhere inside culprit of the drain? NOOOOOO. I installed a cutoff switch, which saved battery juice and also worked as a basic anti theft device and went to do more important things such as dine with friends or read a good book.

    Good luck with 010:)

    Marc
     
  7. khamsin433

    khamsin433 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2009
    256
    Birmingham, UK
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    Balbir
    Ok now this may not be relevant as my car is a 1980 build date.
    Headlight stalk bottom position headlights off.
    Raise headlamp pods.
    Headlight stalk in 1st position up, dipped beams on.
    In this position you can pull headlight stalk towards driver and the main beams come on for flashing purposes, releasing the stalk it springs back to normal plane.
    Headlight stalk to 2nd position up main beams on ( note that flashing capability is not possible nor necessary)
    On my car the end of the stalk can turn but appears loose and makes no difference to the lighting operation. It could be broken internally but doesn’t hinder operation.
    Been very wet & windy here so I’ve not checked the lamps to confirm what happens. I’ll try tomorrow for you.

    Cheers

    Bal
     
  8. MK1044

    MK1044 F1 World Champ
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    Carmine
    Yes Marc, that is part of the "charm" of an Italian car of that era, isn't it? :D
    It could be worse. You could like British cars from the 1960's. :D
    I recall studying the wiring diagram and coming to the conclusion that there was an apparently overlooked, designed-in mistake in the wiring.
    I can't quite recall but I think it was from the regulator to something in the instrument cluster. (Maybe the instrument lights?)
    But you advise Richard correctly. Just enjoy driving the thing!
     
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  9. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    The headlight operation sounds identical to that of a Bora. The Bora has mechanical levers in the bucket area to hold the lights up in case of a hydraulic failure. I honestly don't remember if hydraulic pressure is required to turn on the headlamps? It's been way too long. While that may seem quite slick when everything is operating correctly I'm not so sure it's a great idea when the system has issues. The Bora allows you to disconnect the hydraulic accessories circuits which you would do if say the seat adjustment starts leaking badly. Then after much mopping up you could still drive home. But without headlamps even if raised by hand? That seems dumb to me.
     
  10. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
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    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello All...

    A bit late to the party as usual.. The Khamsin has the same setup as the Bora in that the hydraulic accessories can be "disconnected" in the event of an hydraulic issue, ie - leaks. The headlight buckets can
    also be manually raised and locked into place in case of headlight hydraulic failure. On my Khamsin (AM120 - 1120), the switch to light the lamps is to the left of the radio/stereo unit. The electro-hydraulic
    switch located in the passenger fender inside the engine compartment is problematic.. Many don't have any problems, and may last a very long time. Mine did not, and trying to find an original is difficult
    and the last time I looked very expensive. There is a readily available cheaper alternative that was used on some Fords (Econoline vans - if I remember correctly). There was some questions as to whether
    it could hold the pressure of the Khamsin system, but I have not had any failures/leaks with this cheaper alternative (so far :rolleyes: )… I should add that to get my headlights to work, I raise the headlight buckets
    with the hydraulic switch on the left side of the dash, and then use the headlight switch to the left of the radio to provide electricity to the lights...

    Mike
     
  11. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    Hi Mike

    The headlamp switch on the dashboard is meant to be used as a backup in case the hydraulic switch was to fail. It sounds like the hydraulic switch on your car failed. You did say it was a cheap alternative :)
    MIE has an alternative to the original switch. The MIE switch looks a little different from the original and it is taller, but it works.
    This is the link: http://www.maseratinet.com//pc-17394-441-high-pressure-switch.aspx

    This photo shows the MIE switch on a Khamsin. The same switch part number is used for the headlights and for the brake lights. The yellow arrow points to the screw that is used to isolate the accessories from the rest of the braking system.

    Ivan

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  12. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
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    Michael Demyanovich
    Hi Ivan...

    Agree that the switch I am using to energize the lights is supposed to be the backup.. When my main one failed, I don't think MIE had an option at that time, and their current option at about $200 is a bit high
    in my opinion. When I heard of the cheap alternative, which many years ago was between $10 and $11, it seemed like a good alternative. That cheapo switch still works well to raise the headlight buckets, and I don't really mind
    using the backup light switch to energize the lights.. I do keep a spare switch with the car at all times!

    I am glad you posted the picture of the screw and its location to disable the hydraulic accessories, like the driver seat and headlight buckets. Now Richard will know what this is for. I haven't looked at the Khamsin user
    manual in a while, but I don't think that was ever noted in it. My car is still at my painters :( so I don't have ready access to answer a lot of Richard's questions....

    Mike
     
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  13. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    "That cheapo switch still works well to raise the headlight buckets, and I don't really mind using the backup light switch to energize the lights."

    Actually this switch plays no role in raising the headlight buckets. Its only function is to close the contacts when it senses hydraulic pressure so that the headlights turn on. Of course, you can also use the emergency (backup) switch which will accomplish the same thing. The hydraulic switch you are using is the standard brake light switch used on many cars, such as the Jaguar e-type, etc. These switches were not designed to handle the very high pressures found on the Khamsin, hence they fail. There is also the potential danger of the switch blowing apart while driving .... not a good thing.

    Ivan
     
  14. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    I can report that hydraulic switches mounted on the Biturbos on the brake master cylinder fail quite regularly. They aren't hard to find nor hard to replace but I think a mechanical switch operated off of the brake pedal just makes a lot more sense. As I recall the seat, foot pedal and headlight buckets Bosch cylinders weren't really intended for those high pressures either?
     
  15. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    324
    At which time you will find out exactly what it feels like to be showered with LHM spraying through the center vent, driving at 70 mph trying to go home at 2.00 am, having just lost your lights!

    Regards.
     
  16. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    324
    [QUOTE="staatsof, post: 146343823, member: 17261} As I recall the seat, foot pedal and headlight buckets Bosch cylinders weren't really intended for those high pressures either?[/QUOTE]

    Actually, these Bosch cylinders were intended precisely for such high pressures (way in excess of 100 bar!) in their original applications for Mercedes 600 et al.

    Please see:
    http://www.woerle-fahrzeugtechnik.com/en/content/133/96/restoration/comfort-hydraulics

    Regards.
     
  17. red27

    red27 Formula Junior

    Sep 7, 2010
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    Mark Oliver
    Very interesting link. Thanks for posting.

    Best wishes to all.

    Mark.
     
  18. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
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    Actually, these Bosch cylinders were intended precisely for such high pressures (way in excess of 100 bar!) in their original applications for Mercedes 600 et al.

    Please see:
    http://www.woerle-fahrzeugtechnik.com/en/content/133/96/restoration/comfort-hydraulics

    Regards.[/QUOTE]
    Very interesting to see that someone is rebuilding these Bosch components. I took the liberty of providing this link to the thread that is dedicated to Citroen hydraulics. Although I know these are Bosch and not Citroen components, both have green blood.

    Ivan
     
  19. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    It appears that the Citroen system runs approximately 500 psi higher but I'm not sure that's such an issue? I'd always heard that there was a greater disparity in the pressures of the two systems for these accessory cylinders.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_600
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_DS



    My seat cylinder leaked at the connection point so that was an easy fix. The headlamp cylinders ... not as lucky.

    I see that MIE is selling these https://www.ebay.com/itm/MASERATI-BORA-KHAMSIN-MERAK-STAINLESS-BILLET-HYDRAULIC-LIGHT-LIFT-CYLINDER/132798359227?hash=item1eeb6626bb:g:Kz4AAOSwA1pax5hi

    $800 but it is easily rebuilt. Not really a selling point for me now as I'll be dead or too old by the time a fresh set fails ... :p
    Does anyone know how much the German place charges?

    Bob S.
     
  20. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    324
    According to the above referred Wikipedia sources, the difference is 224 psi; 2,400 psi for Citroen vs 2176 psi for Mercedes.

    Regards.
     
  21. staatsof

    staatsof Five Time F1 World Champ
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    That's the one that caught my eye but it might vary from model to model? The Boras had more highly charged brake accumulators but I'm not sure what that means in this context? This is the accessories branch of the circuit. So I don't know the pressure developed in that one? In the SF area we had a local Citroen expert who would recharge the accumulators for you.
     
  22. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2006
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    Happy new year to all Khamsinistas, may you enjoy lots of driving time on beautiful roads generating special memories.

    Cars are being restored, restoration shops are getting ever better with new techniques being put into play and K's keep coming out of the woodwork thanks to generational change there are more active K's now than 20 yeas ago as the number of cars re-emerging from long slumber exceeds the number of cars lost due to exposure to the elements which is wonderful.

    Before the fiftieth anniversary three day event: KHAMSIN CINQUANTA in June 2022 at a very convenient and pleasant location (not official yet) with a goal of fifty Khamsins -mark your calendars and time your restorations - more one or two day national K gatherings will take place as was the case in Switzerland near Zurich in 2010: I am thinking particularly of Benelux and Austria but there may be others, such as Germany and France, California, US northeast, Australia.

    So into fifth gear we go into 2019!:)

    Here a couple of winter photos supplied by Bart vdW of an unidentified one in a long ago Dutch winter.

    Marc

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  23. KYALAMI

    KYALAMI Rookie

    Aug 12, 2010
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    Dear All,

    Happy New Year and happy Motoring in 2019!

    This Khamsin is up for sale in The Netherlands: https://www.jbclassiccars.com/?portfolio=maserati-khamsin-1976 It is located only a 5 minutes drive from where i live. Funny to see 1130 and 1152 (my car) so close to each other after they spend their life both under the Californian sun! I've seen the car, but have not been able to drive it. Looks good, inside and out but no concours car. About €. 18.000.-- was spend recently in maintenance and upgrade. For further information, please contact the seller.
     
  24. rga

    rga Karting

    Jul 14, 2012
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    Roger the Dodger
    Hello Marc

    the closest I could find of the car in 'Dutch' winter are the following two Pictures, but I cannot identify either of them, but maybe someone else does.

    Best regards
    Roger
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  25. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

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    Thanks for trying Roger, I guess we have to keep at it:).

    Jan thanks for that the car needs its indicators integrated in the front bumper not sticking out like praying Mantis eyes on stalks lol.

    All the best,
    Marc
     

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