News

Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2006
    4,978
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    Richard you and your lethal tires you are offering for sale remind me of a true story of my grandfather on the way to the market in Burgundy near Macon about a century ago and meeting a somewhat retarded illiterate peasant woman also heading there with a full basket of mushrooms.
    When he asked "Marie what do you have there let me see." She said "Here you go Mr Sonnery have a look Sir if you please."
    They were all Ammanite Phalloide: lethal.
    When he informed her she said with complete conviction and without any qualm "Oh but Sir they are not to be eaten they are to be sold!"

    Now you know we get along and that I don't mean any disrespect and I am not comparing you -or you IQ!- to her in any way, just gently teasing you...but maybe you should get a responsability waiver when you sell these tires because my worry is always that someone one day will say oh come on I will take you for a ride in my car after dinner we will be all right and...disaster strikes...

    Just my deux centimes...
     
    MK1044, 71Satisfaction and 010 like this.
  2. 010

    010 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 19, 2009
    66
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Maybe I should write in permanent White marker.... "Do not mount under order of the Head Khamsinista" too

    Your point is well taken... Maybe I just spend $20 at the local recycle yard to be rid of them....... With no regrets or guilt....
    R

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2006
    4,978
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    Head who? No such person exists;-)

    Wise man, you've earned a drink when we meet:)
     
    010 likes this.
  4. 010

    010 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 19, 2009
    66
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Richard
    When we finally meet in person!

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
     
    Nembo1777 likes this.
  5. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    145
    Belgium
    010 and Nembo1777 like this.
  6. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
    656
    New York and Norway
    Full Name:
    Art
    Today I checked in on The Patient K and she's doing OK. Drove 80 miles in 85F ambient temperature, engine ran smoothly albeit a touch hot (hovered to 95C) but thermoswitched fans were able to keep her from overheating. Crappy old XWX's prevented the experience from being a pleasure... very happy to get back in my Bora for the drive home, they are worlds apart in road feel, thank goodness. But the K left no puddle of LHM on the pavement unlike last time, so that's an improvement, but signs of hydraulic pressure issues remain.. Brief winks of the Brake Pressure Warning light, and nearly all accumulator pressure bled down after sitting about 90 minutes.
    So there will be some decisions for the Owner as to prioritization;
    - Replace tires
    - Repair all accumulators
    - Rebuild all brake calipers
    - Repair leaking exhaust system
    - Repair rusting QP's
    - Flush and refresh all fluids.. oil, fuel, brakes, coolant, diff oil
    ..or let her continue her descent into the morass of a car driven far too seldom.

    Buona notte,
    - Art


    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    pilotoCS likes this.
  7. Froggie

    Froggie Karting

    Sep 27, 2017
    145
    Belgium
    If no serious maintenance was undertaken up to now, seems to me that brake system reconditioning is an urgency for safety reasons.
    As well as tires change, of course
     
    71Satisfaction likes this.
  8. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    2,278
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    If the brake calipers are not leaking, do you need to rebuild them? LHM tends to preserve the calipers' internals .... unlike regular brake fluid. You will want to dump whatever LHM is in the tank, put fresh fluid and bleed the brakes. Also while you are at it, replace the flex hoses as they degrade internally over time. +1 on replacing the tires.
    Ivan
     
  9. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
    656
    New York and Norway
    Full Name:
    Art
    Thanks all,
    Indeed the LHM is an excellent preservative, as confirmed with Carter, a specialist at Dave Burnham Citroen. But some rubber O-rings do harden and develop a flat profile over time, he showed me a sample from his workbench and from my own Bora. They will develop a flat profile, depends on age, use and the compound used at the time. But directly to the point - Yes, the front calipers on this K are weeping LHM, not the rears but my expectation is it's only a matter of time. I tolerated mine weeping a little for some years, but have had

    I spent the evening reading the chapter on Khamsins in Marc's Maserati/The Citroen Years and learned a lot about the K's "common quirks". They are almost all present here: Normal unboosted clutch on start-up, warning-buzzer building pressure, exhaust fumes in the cockpit, rust in the lower rear QP's, and more.. it's as if he was looking at this K when he wrote it, a valuable resource.

    I'll let the owner decide what to prioritize - if anything!? :-(
    - Art
     
  10. thecarnut

    thecarnut Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    2,278
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    Agreed, weeping calipers need attention.

    One of the most annoying things I've found about the K's are the exhaust fumes entering the cockpit. On my last K it was flat out unpleasant. I've never experienced this on a Ghibli, Bora or just about any other car but the Khamsin. This K does not have a bumper conversion therefore we cannot blame the fumes from improperly converted bumpers. What is the fix?

    Ivan
     
  11. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2006
    4,978
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    #7636 Nembo1777, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
    Actually I was hiding in the loft of his garage taking notes;)

    Please stop driving the car until it has tires and serviced brakes:eek: it should be obvious :rolleyes:
    Thanks for the reports Art.

    Am driving home from Chantilly concours, there were two K s will post pix of gorgeous freshly repainted light green #202
     
  12. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,027
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Hello All...

    Regarding exhaust fumes in the passenger compartment, Maserati issued a 'Servizio Assistenza Technica' document dated 4/2/1975. The copy
    of the document I have is a bit difficult to read, but if there is more interest, I will take the time to present it here. Also, MIE published Tech Tip
    183 - Exhaust Fumes in Khamsin. I should also note that there is also some information about gas fumes in passenger compartment as well...

    Mike
     
  13. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,027
    Harriman, TN USA
    Full Name:
    Michael Demyanovich
    Oops.. not my day today! I should also mention that I have never experienced exhaust
    fumes in my K, but that doesn't mean it won't happen sometime in the future. On the
    rare occasion I have noticed some gas fumes, but very rare!

    Mike
     
  14. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    62,051
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    I remember that mike.

    Just a note. Espadas suffer from the same GD issue. Both constructed by Bertone. Such a high quality coach builder ... In the Espada there is direct opening to the ground in the rear on both sides that is only "covered over" by leather covered fiberglass interior panels and carpet/padding. Also on that car both gas tanks are essentially in the interior along with most of the rubber gasoline plumbing.
    Makes for quite the odoriferous cocktail in 40+ year old vehicle!

    We just have to be nuts to take on these projects!
     
  15. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
    656
    New York and Norway
    Full Name:
    Art
    :) Sorry - this request is simply not possible. I have the keys and it is far too interesting to drive. The calipers are leaking less every time I take it out, and it's better off leaking a little than being not driven. I am taking it home as soon as I convince the Owner that this K is just old junk... ;)

    My approach will be to discuss what the Owner is willing to spend annually to prevent this K from descending further into oblivion. If that fails, I'll buy the new tires and fix the brakes myself, and in the Spring I'll install the Euro bumper conversion as a birthday gift to the Owner. The US rear is just a disgrace. I'll write it off my taxes as a Charitable Donation ... and call it "Equity" with the Owner.

    Ciao,
    - Art


    I call this "Rhapsody in Blue"
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2006
    4,978
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    Art glad you are so enthusiastic about it. Re the bumper conversion do it in winter so the car is ready for spring, far too many mismanage their plans for classics and waste the summer. As you can read in my A to Z bumper conversion it takes half a day to do the nose and a full day to do the rear. Best done at a body shop with the right tools and competences, also do the whole conversion not just part of it as sometimes happen when people were not properly prepared. Best of luck:)
     
  17. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Rookie

    Nov 4, 2006
    4,978
    opposite lock
    Full Name:
    Marc Sonnery
    I am sure I posted this before but as the subject has come up here is my compilation of all possible causes of EXHAUST fumes with thanks to all sources such as Frank cigar man and Andy in the UK.

    FUEL fumes are due to the pipe that goes from the filler to the exhaust being dry rotten and allowing fuel fumes out into the cockpit. I have seen this several times, cheap and easy to change.

    KHAMSIN EXHAUST FUMES


    It is not an unheard of issue but can be solved. It is important to distinguish exhaust fumes from fuel fumes.


    Here are notes and advice from various eminent experts:


    Frank Mandarano, former owner of MIE who occasionally posts here:


    “Having experienced this Khamsin problem many times, I would like to
    pass on a couple tips.

    In my experience, the number one cause of fumes in the Khamsin cabin
    is from the fresh air seal in the engine compartment. The seal is
    usually non existent
    or old and cracked.
    The hood shuts onto it, and allows fresh air in through the hood
    grill.
    Simply replace the seal with some fairly dense foam by gluing it
    down, on both surfaces. Then check the quality of the seal by using a
    light coating of
    Vaseline on one side and baby powder on the other. Close the hood and
    reopen adjust the
    height of the hood and repeat. This technique can also be used on
    the hatch and door
    seals. Door and rear hatch seals can be shimmed up or replaced.

    Fumes are generated in two ways, first and most likely would be
    cracked (USA) exhaust headers under the aluminum wrapping. Next would
    be blow by. The
    cracked exhaust can be welded up after removing the wrapping, or
    better yet Spend the
    money and replace them with Euro headers for a better sound and more
    HP. The blow by,
    well that could be a $15,000 bill, you may not want to go there.
    I hope this helps.



    As Mandarano notes the US exhaust headers can also crack under the aluminium wrapping, they did on a US model Bora the restoration of which I supervised in Modena.


    George Perfect of England has a Khamsin he knows intimately. He states that the fumes come throught the gearlever opening and that sealing that properly is the answer.”


    Here is another set of questions and answers courtesy Enrico’s excellent website:

    http://www.maserati-indy.co.uk/alfieri00a.htm


    The answers are from Andy Heywood of Bill McGrath’s the pre-eminent classic Maserati service and restoration company in England.


    Steve in the USA writes:


    "Hi Enrico,

    I have heard many complaints and many solutions to problems with exhaust fumes in khamsins. Problems causing exhaust fumes in the cockpit with the windows open seem to be:

    1.) exhaust tips too short

    2.) leakage at exhaust connections w/ headers

    3.) rear compartment seals around body/frame intersection

    4.) poor aerodynamics of rear underbody

    5.) deteriorated gasket at fresh air intake under hood

    I've repaired 2, 3, & 5, and problem is reduced, but not eliminated. Is this problem simply endemic, and should I stop throwing money around, or is there a final solution.

    Thanks,

    Steve."





    Reply from Andy:-

    Re: Khamsin exhaust fumes.

    "Number 3 is usually the root cause of this problem. It is not easy to see where the problem lies when the car is complete, but basically, the area between the rear of the boot floor and the outer panelling of the car is open and this allows air/gas to circulate around the inside of the rear panel. There are two things that you can do to eliminate it. One is to fill the area with expanded foam (although this does nothing for the longevity of the panels) and the other is to re-trim the alcantara area that is on the inside of this area (i.e. all the way round the boot slam panel from the boot lid aperture to the perspex window) and make sure that there is a good seal between everything. We believe that this is all Maserati did to get rid of the problem but as cars get older, they tend to have breaks/cracks/missing pieces of trim. We have successfully eliminated the problem on a number of cars by doing this.

    Andy."



    Yet more ideas:


    There are obviously many places to look for the cause of this problem. Two
    spring readily to mind:

    1) Make sure the rear hatch seals tightly. Not just that the rubber is
    good, but that you are getting a good seal. Even a small aperture back there
    will let in plenty of fumes given the vortexes created.

    2) Make sure all apertures in the firewall are sealed and try to seal the
    transmission tunnel, everywhere.


    Of course I would check all of the above, simple enough.


    Other possibilities are cracked exhaust headers and or holes in the floor: many Khamsins have floor pans that have rusted or been damaged by improper jacking up of the car.”


    End of quote.



    Annoying yes but I have never heard of a Khamsin which could not be cured: mine (AM120US1242) for example used to have it but was later owned and driven often by a lady who would not tolerate any exhaust smell so the problem was comprehensively cured. In the case of my ex car it was cracked exhaust headers.


    With the above tips you and your driving enjoyment will prevail!


    Best regards,


    Marc
     
    71Satisfaction likes this.
  18. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
    656
    New York and Norway
    Full Name:
    Art
    Good stuff, Marc, and it looks to be most of what your book includes..
    Having inspected the K with regards to the Exhaust Fumes, the easiest and most visible culprit looks to be the seal between the hood and fresh air intake in the engine bay. I have sourced some good soft rubber gasketing to experiment with..

    If that fix prevents the fumes from getting into the cockpit, it appears I'll have to investigate the headers for cracks...
    - Art
     
  19. staatsof

    staatsof Six Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    62,051
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    What Andy highlights in #3 is the exact same thing Espadas do. There are even more goodies like that on Espadas. And that's no coinkdink, that's Bertone.
     
  20. 010

    010 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 19, 2009
    66
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Anyone or any K's in or near Modena this Friday July 12. I'll be there visiting the factory for a tour, but missing Fabio unfortunately as he is on vacation now... But still a good visit I hope..
    Love the roads out here...and the food...and the views...and the.... Well.....all of it really.
    Richard

    Ps. The better road pictures are on my wife's camera as I was smiling too much on the bendies to focus on trivial pictures.. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
     
  21. 010

    010 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 19, 2009
    66
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Richard
    So today I visited two Masa places.... Many pics but here is the one dearest to us all..found in the second location after my visit to the Masa factory. This is the private Panini collection purchased as a lot at a Brooke's auction many years ago by the Panini family to keep them all together and local to Modena.

    If anyone wants specific pics. Please let me know.

    I was not able to get into the K... But did a close up walk around.. however not under the hood. It looked to be in decent internal condition... It is a 1975.. and had the rare ROMA plate.. the only license plates ever in Italy with the full city name . Apparently this is quite rare..

    A nice day with a lot of easy hwy miles... In a Renault :( Could have been worse.
    r Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
     
    Merak1974 likes this.
  22. Foncool

    Foncool Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2011
    293
    Seen the cars many times as probably has most here. Hope you bought some cheese
     
    boralogist likes this.
  23. 010

    010 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 19, 2009
    66
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Hello. Alas, the Hombre Cheese Shop and everything else was closed when I left the tour room (mid day shutdown)... Was all alone in fact in there and only found one gentleman on a break to answer a few questions. An amazing referral to find the place and lots of dream time within. Fully enjoyed and recommend. If I had to chose this or the factory tour. I'd go to this everytime...

    But then again... I like the pre 80s stuff most and I do find most factories show about the same as you would see on a documentary. Here we build. Here we test, here we buff. Etc...

    The other thing I noted was that although it is the Masa factory... Their was much more going on for Fiat, Alfa, etc.....I know the numbers make sense... But the badge could have been switched for Alfa and it would not seem odd.. It seemed a bit too generic a plant... Although I do not doubt they do good work there. The final products at least looked lovely.... I simply wanted for "pazazz" for the Maserati way...oh well. Still a good tour... I'll have to meet Fabio next time I am over...
    R

    Ps. They do not allow any pictures in the factory.. nothing special was in or going on.. was a bit disappointed on that note.. the guides however were helpful in providing info if they had the answer.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
     
  24. Foncool

    Foncool Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2011
    293

    The only Maserati that WAS built in Modena was the GranTurismo everything else is built in Torino. GranTurismo production should have ended by now, only the 4C spider still being built in Modena.
     
    Merak1974 and 010 like this.
  25. Merak1974

    Merak1974 Formula 3

    Aug 31, 2009
    1,613
    Oslo, Norway
    Full Name:
    Gabriel R.G. Benito
    Rumors suggest the Viale Ciro Menotti factory is soon to be prepared for the production of a new sports car model. Any further information?
     

Share This Page