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Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. ralt72

    ralt72 Rookie

    Dec 4, 2020
    19
    Full Name:
    James Nelson
    Responding to Ivan's comment on #9610...
     
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  3. AMLC

    AMLC Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2009
    562
    Maybe they used that car not only to experiment with the US sidelights, because I think it also has the new style seats. If it's #176 then I think it's the lowest chassis number I've seen with those seats. .

    I'm surprised that he accepted the car with these sidelights by the way. And that they used this car for the photo in the brochure.
     
  4. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    #9628 Nembo1777, Apr 30, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
    -Very possible re the seats. As to the sidelights I don't think a client would have done more than raise his eyebrows for a second; different era. Concerning the brochure it was perhaps a mistake to use that car but another car meant to be photographed was perhaps not ready so they took that one at the last minute, don't forget that many times whatever was on the shelf or whatever was available was used, not just in assembling cars but in making one available for a client or journalist test drive...or publicity shoot. Modenese seventies M.O. were not those of Japan in the 21st century....

    -In other news Khamsin 182, the green car which had a hefty impact with a ditch in France in February last year has now been collected for its Polish buyer and will be restored in a German restoration shop which will kindly share photos of the work so we will be able to see the rebirth process of this Phoenix:)
     
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  5. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior
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    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
    #9629 71Satisfaction, May 2, 2021
    Last edited: May 2, 2021
    TECHNICAL QUESTION: REMOVING FRONT COIL SPRINGS...

    Can I de-tension and remove the front coil spring by disconnecting the upper ball joint and dropping the lower A-arm?

    Tech Tip #432 on page 166 of Viale Ciro Menotti issue #93 mentions using a spring compressor to contain the sprung tension before disassembling the A-arms. The spring compressors I have are just not the right geometry to install and grab enough of the coils - let's note the spring is very short.

    I have the Kh up on jack stands, the swaybar link, caliper and shock absorber are removed.

    QUESTION: Can I release the sprung tension using the same approach as the gentleman in this video?
    (F.Forward to the 5:10 mark for the coil spring de-tension..)



    SUMMARY:
    - Jackstand the car and remove obstructing parts.
    - Jack JUST the lower A-arm up to compress the spring and de-tension the upper ball joint.
    - Separate the upper ball joint, and swing the spindle/brake rotor assembly away.
    - Lower the A-arm until tension in the coil spring is relieved, then remove the unsprung coil spring from its seat.. does anyone know from experience whether all the tension IS relieved within the "travel" of the A-arm?

    This seems reasonable since the Kh coil is very short.. I'm expecting it SHOULD de-tension in a fairly short amount of lower-A-arm-travel.
    Prior to the attempt, I would install a chain into the coil and wrap it around the chassis to contain any potential explosive failure.

    Grazie,
    - Art
     
  6. barnfieldman

    barnfieldman Rookie

    Apr 18, 2006
    37
    Art,
    look at post #7382 in this thread. Worked well for me.
    Regards
    Paul
     
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  8. series1

    series1 Karting

    Apr 10, 2007
    85
    Leamington Spa
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    Mark Butler
    Hi, when I took my front springs out, my intention was to use the long bolt technique. I’ve used that on other cars and it worked well. I got the car up and started. There are 6 bolts , 3 front 3 rear, so I figured I’d get one out at a time. Starting at the rear side, thee first bolt sheared. Leaving me 2 bolts. Then the second sheared. This left me with no chance of getting the 3rd bolt out to replace it with a long bolt.

    At this post I had no choice but to try the jack under spring pan method. I have honestly never been so apprehensive about anything in my life. As I was removing the remaining bolts I was getting lots of straining noises. When I took the last bolt out, yes the jack stopped the spring dropping but it did not stop the car lifting and bouncing around 2 inches off the front axle stands!!! I still have all my fingers and the car did not fall off but I would honestly never do this route again.

    I would totally do the long bolt method. But I think I should have put a jack under the spring pan to take the pressure off the bolts. Just to crack them loose. Maybe that’s why they sheared.

    Hope that helps. Good luck
     
  9. Mexico074

    Mexico074 Formula 3

    Aug 14, 2008
    1,134
    Harriman, TN USA
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    Michael Demyanovich
    I know I will be referring to a Ghibli here in the Khamsin thread, but thought I would add my thoughts.

    I removed the springs using a spring compressor coupled with a very large socket... This can be seen in the attached picture.
    I didn't have any trouble removing the spring, as I took my time and tried to make sure that is was never pointing at anything
    that could be damaged as I moved it around my garage. I finally placed it horizontally on the floor as I released the pressure.
    This worked fine on both sides.

    I am now getting ready to re-assemble the suspension and weighing options on re-install :

    1. compressor and socket - reverse of removal
    2. jack method
    3. long bolt method

    I haven't made a final decision yet, but I am leaning toward number 1 or number 3. With no engine in the car, I also felt option
    number 2 might just lift the car off the jack stands... I think the long bolt method has the advantage of allowing the assembly
    (spring, rubber cover, and support plate) to be correctly aligned at the start.... The compressor and socket method worked well for removal
    but would have to be aligned perfectly for re-install, as adjustments while attaching would be difficult...

    It will be interesting to see what other people think. I believe Ivan has used the long bolt method before. It would be great if he
    would provide some pointers here with his experience and perhaps mention what length bolts he used, pros and cons, and if he still recommends
    this method.

    Mike
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  10. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Apr 22, 2006
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    The Car Nut
    If I recall, I used your same method to remove the springs but used a combination of the spring compressor with long bolts to re-install them. You are correct is saying that aligning the spring and plate is critical when re-installing the springs. The long bolts really help to keep things aligned.

    Ivan
     
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  11. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    332
    SFO Peninsula
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    Alan Watkins
    This post was not properly answered because it got hijacked into a discussion about Instrument bulbs.

    The answer is Yes. I recently installed 20W LED H4 bulbs in my Lotus Elan which has a notoriously weak charging and wiring system. I did this specifically to increase safety because those bulbs draw less than half the current the original incandescent H4 bulbs draw. Furthermore the result includes dramatically better road illumination than the original bulbs.

    As for originality, I doubt this would be detectable during the day. At night, yes they produce a colder white than incandescent, but I’ve not yet been to a concours judged at night.

    The ones I installed are from Beamtech. Be careful to observe the wattage, because they also make standard-wattage (50-60) bulbs that produce really bright light. Beamtech tends tend to rate wattage in pairs, for some reason, so read the specs carefully. They cost about $40/pair.

    I recommend the change highly and will be doing the same to the other cars including the Khamsin.
     
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  13. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    777
    Sounds great!
    Are these both low/hi beams or single filament?

    As K's have separate low and hi beams which specific bulbs do you suggest using to upgrade all 4 headlights?

    Thanks.
     
  14. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    332
    SFO Peninsula
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    Alan Watkins
    I haven’t yet looked into the exact requirements of the Khamsin. Mine is a federal model which means it may still have sealed beam headlights. This would mean replacing the outer glass housing with a european conversion like Hella Vision Plus 5-3/4” which are about $40. The bulbs it requires are either H1 or H4 or both and should be listed in the owner’s manual. If it already has European housings then it’s just a matter of determining whar bulbs the manual calls for.
     
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  15. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    332
    SFO Peninsula
    Full Name:
    Alan Watkins
    USA parts book shows sealed beam and two different part numbers so it’s highly likely we need 4 ea. 5-3/4” glass housings and two each H1 and H4 bulbs. For H1 I ordered this: https://www.beamtechs.com/products/beamtech-h1-led-bulb-fanless-csp-y19-chips-8000-lumens-6500k-xenon-white-extremely-bright-conversion-kit?_pos=2&_sid=815504e56&_ss=r
    and for H4 this: https://www.beamtechs.com/products/beamtech-h4-9003-led-headlight-bulb-50w-6500k-8000lumens-extremely-brigh-hb3-csp-chips-conversion-kit?_pos=1&_sid=d806dd91f&_ss=r
    The housing should be this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002M9QKQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

    Keep in mind I haven’t actually done this yet, except for putting the above H4 into a 7” housing, in the Elan. Many a slip, and all that.
     
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  16. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    332
    SFO Peninsula
    Full Name:
    Alan Watkins
    By the way, since I’m working on my shift lever at the moment, has anyone here ever disassembled it? I ask because mine is missing all but three of the six or eight internal washers, clips and rubber bushings. One mystery is the parts book shows an E-clip aka external circlip but when I study the lower shift lever I see no groove for such a clip to engage. A larger question is what exactly prevents the upper “extension” shift lever from simply being pulled off of the lower one? I have the big internal snap ring but see no way for it to prevent “the shift lever just came off in my hand!” syndrome from happening. Currently mine is held on only by the friction of the lower rubber bushing against the two concentric lever sections.
     
  17. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    332
    SFO Peninsula
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    Alan Watkins
    My general experience, including with the Khamsin, is that aftermarket temp and pressure senders cannot be trusted to have the correct temp (or whatever) vs resistance curve and that there is no even de facto standard. The only sane way out of this is to put a potentiometer in the 300-ohm range on your gauge, and develop a resistence vs indicated value curve, and then measure the same curve for the sender (water bath with thermometer).
     
  18. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior
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    Jul 15, 2012
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    Art
    Thanks for the examples, Gentlemen,
    I adapted Mark's method and learned from his experience.

    I placed the jack under the bottom pan and lifted the whole assembly until the spring compressed and that side of the car lifted 1/2" off the jack stand.
    This condition means the spring is FULLY pre-loaded onto the jack, and compressed, with ALL the weight transferred to the jack. No weight is on the A-arms and bottom pan bolts.

    If you THEN remove the 6 bolts, you can watch the bolt heads separate from the bottom pan and you can screw them out by hand. Once all bolts are out, you temporarily suspend the upper A-arm with zip ties, and slowly lower the jack. The bottom pan will separate from the lower A-arm, letting the spring de-tension to its full length, and the spring will descend out of the bottom. This mimics the motion of the "long bolt" method ---> it lets the bottom pan separate from the lower A-arm in a controlled fashion, extending the spring until its de-tensioned at maximum length.

    The trick to this jack method is to fabricate a block that fits solidly on top of the jack head, tapered or angled such that it fully supports the circular portion of the bottom pan, so the spring isn't unloading or separating from the A-arm asymmetrically as you unscrew the 6 bottom pan bolts.

    I don't expect this method will be easy to reverse, because the alignment of the pan-and-A-arm bolt holes has to be predicted before you jack the spring and bottom pan back up into place. Trial and error might work. But I have the assembly apart and can restore it all at my leisure.

    Cheers,
    - Art

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  19. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 4, 2006
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    Alan hope you are well, great posts!

    Right you all know the hydraulic lever to the left of the driver's seat (in left hand drive K's). It is normally covered by a simple soft rubber cover that is just gently pressed onto it, not attached in any way. As has happened on many cars, including my ex 1242 is that a left foot catches it when getting out of the car and flips it onto the pavement, unnoticed as my webmaster did back in 2005 when I let him drive the car.

    These rubber thingies cannot be bought (unless someone knows something I don't which would be great news!) however they would be the simplest thing to reproduce by 3D Printing or via a mold.

    Can someone who still has it on his car please get it scanned? I am sure it can be reproduced for a few Euros dollars and that many would want one.
    Here is an example of a car where it has gone missing.

    Thanks in advance,

    Marc


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  20. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
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    Alan Watkins
    #9642 awatkins, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
    I need seat lifter part too, but what I’m asking about is the gear shift lever, which contains a complex stack of parts to prevent vibration from reaching the knob.

    Sylvia at Campana just told me none of the parts are available so I'm going to have to fabricate my out of this. See 638 through 643 below. Has nobody looked inside the gearshift lever? Ivan? Anybody?

     
  21. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
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    Alan Watkins
    #9643 awatkins, May 5, 2021
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
    As I say above I had a similar problem but the numb-nuts who was working on the car at the time didn't bother to properly diagnose, and then threw the original sensor away. If anyone out there has a known-original temp sensor off the car and could take a few water bath measurements it would help all of us because then we could identify a correct after-mark replacement.
     
  22. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
    332
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    Alan Watkins
    Wouldn't it be cool if we had our own section on a proper Maserati forum so we could have subject lines and threads like normal 21st century internet users? Why are we putting up with this?
     
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  23. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    777
    You may wish to look at my posts ##9514-9515; & 9521 on this thread!
     
  24. series1

    series1 Karting

    Apr 10, 2007
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    Leamington Spa
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    Mark Butler
    if there was one on my car, I’d gladly get it scanned but it’s obviously been left on the road somewhere in the past
     
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  25. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Alan if you feel like it please start a separate thread in the Maserati section about how this forum could be improved, modernized.

    FYI to anyone else here Alan is a silicon valley software expert I have known since 2014, he is very sharp on such topics.

    Separate, no discussion of that in this thread please, to stay on topic:)
     
  26. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
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    Alan Watkins
    No they weren’t both defective, just have a curve that does not match your gauge, which leads right back to my earlier statement:

    We need someone with a known good original sender the measure its curve. Any volunteers?
     
  27. awatkins

    awatkins Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2005
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    Alan Watkins
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  28. boralogist

    boralogist Formula Junior

    Jun 21, 2005
    777
    OK---Will try to help you one last time.
    READ post 9521
     

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