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Maserati Khamsin

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by Maeter, Feb 24, 2008.

  1. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe just steer clear from them they're not good from an exhaust flow standpoint but there are no innards like in a catalytic converter.

    As Elliot describes, when properly used they self destruct and crack.
    This is why there's an admonition on the chassis of the late Boras to not operate the car over 4,000 ft elevation. This is why when a week after I picked up my Bora and drove it over Betha pass out of Denver the car just stopped running and when I opened up the rear hatch those thermal reactors were cherry read. That's when I cut the belt to the air pump. Problem solved. But they had cracked again and I also melted a lot of stuff in my engine compartment including the inner nylon layer in the emergency brake cable housing!

    Even so, when driving the Bora at extended high speeds my plain steel MIE source European headers glow red so they are wrapped in ceramic thermal cloth I sourced from a NASA supplier in Sunnyvale to keep the heat from entering the engine compartment.

    Before that I tried Jet Hot Coatings and that just burned off. I suspect that they didn't have their technology quite right yet at the time. Today I'd probably have them ceramic coated with what the NASCAR teams use.

    I think you need to find some in PA who makes custom headers and have them modified. I did that for my Espada once but the guy I used who did fantastic SS welding and header work has since retired.
    Good hunting!
     
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  3. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    Marc,
    Looking at your image of the Euro headers, they appear to be of 2 different designs?
     
  4. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Yes someone here bought a pair of standard ones but they did not fit the Stebro exhaust -which was too short- he had so he either bought or had different ones made.
     
  5. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    There are some good comparison photos on ivan’s site of original thermal reactor headers vs euro headers on US spec cars (assume they are aftermarket MIE headers). On Khamsin #1028 the euro headers appear to hang well below the frame rail compared to #1284 with the Thermal Reactors which appear to fit into the area much better.

    Does anyone have a picture of a Euro Khamsin with original factory supplied headers?
     
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  7. MK1044

    MK1044 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I agree with Bob. There is no fill in them.
     
  8. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    yes the canister chamber is empty, the only obstruction is the “Air” runners in the down pipe that curve up towards the exhaust port of the head.

    here are the photos from ivan site showing the comparison mounting of the Euro vs the Thermal Reactors. Would love to see how low the original Euro headers hang.

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  9. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Grody to the MAX!
    Do yourself a favor and sand blast those things before you take them to a headers tech for any welding.
    That's serious dent.

    It also looks like you have engine mounts very similar to those on a Bora which means that engine probably bounces up and down a lot. So if the down stroke times with an extra low clearance issue under the car like a sudden drop in the road surface after having just gone over a bump then BANG!
     
  10. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    If you look close at the photo from #1028, there appears to be a dent (although much smaller) on the same pipe in exactly the same place. Until someone posts a photo of a factory Khamsin Euro Headers, It appears that there is a clearance issue with the MIE headers.
     
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  12. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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  13. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    Would like to see another one. This one doesn’t appear to have any dents in the header area where the MIE headers do. which may indicate that the curve is different. However the driver seems to have went over a number speed bumps given the condition of the center muffler.
     
  14. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    #10387 Nembo1777, Jun 14, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2022
    Thanks to my friend Philippe in Belgium the mystery of the unknown Verde Pino Khamsin shown a few posts ago (post 10349) in the recent Trieste Concours on the Adriatic coast in Italy has been solved.

    It is not 1286 (also Verde Pino and also in Italy) but 1028.

    1028 is a car I first saw in 2004 at the Keeneland Concours in...Lexington Kentucky where I had been invited by a local collector and show organiser to be MC/Speaker during a very nice weekend.
    It was owned by Greg a nice midwest enthusiast who had only seen one K before he said; "A gold car at Elkhart lake a few years ago" and I was able to answer it is mine since April:)

    It was red with black lower end and in so so condition, Greg then sold it on Ebay in July 2009 as he realized he did not have the budget to maintain it right. Our friend Ivan in Georgia then bought it.

    In 2011 it was sold to Austria and was owned for a couple of years by the man in Vienna who was then the record holder of Khamsin ownership; he had five at the time!

    It then went through the hands of a couple of Austrian dealers, the last of which, Car Collection Wittner, showed it at the Padova show near Venice in October 2020 where I saw it again. I posted photos of it at the show then.

    The current owner is actually from Padova so obviously bought it at the show or soon after.

    Verde Pino is just stunning so even if it is not its original color it is a lot better than resale red!

    In the 1990's 1028 passed through the hands of Hyman the dealer in St Louis and Motorcar Gallery in Fort Lauderdale.

    The 4 in 1 photo is at Motorcar Gallery, the two others were taken when Greg was selling the car in 2009.

    The urban photo is at the Concours in Trieste late May this year.

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  15. 71Satisfaction

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    #10388 71Satisfaction, Jun 14, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2022
    Regarding dents....
    An American V8 engine shop ran HP dyno-tests on aftermarket headers, and when they tested products that had clearance issues, they hammered the headers as any DIY customer would have to do.. They found little-to-no HP penalty for hammering header tubes to solve clearance situations. In some cases, they even found HP or Tq gains in doing so. I don't know if anyone recalls the MIE Euro headers I installed in our Bora. I had to hammer one tube into a D shape to clear a frame member. I was not longer reluctant to dent the header tube after watching the V8 shop's experience. I regret I can't find the YouTube segment I watched.

    MIE Euro Headers...
    When I talked with MIE about the clearance issue with our Bora, they said the headers were fabricated to order by a vendor who used the same jig to weld them up as they had for all prior customers, and they had not received any prior reports of clearance issues. They were willing to take the Bora headers back and refund the price. I declined their offer and hammered the offending tube to make clearance.

    Khamsin..
    My Khamsin 1196 has Euro headers. I don't have decent photos of their setup - but I can tell you that each bank of 4 exhaust tubes collect and transition to a single tube at a flange located longitudinally where the engine bell housing bolts to the ZF 5-speed. Their first set of hangers is located at the tail end of the ZF, just before the center muffler box. My friend's Khamsin 1180 has the US "tin can" exhausts - I would hardly call them headers, they look like absolute crap - and by no means do they appear to offer any graceful air flow. I would love to have him let me switch 1180 over to Euro style, and I'd be happy to hammer them as needed for clearance.

    Cheers,
    - Art
     
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  16. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting Art.

    My original MIE Euro headers (Bora) fit WO any denting required. Those ere aluminized after the Jet hot coatings failed. The aluminum dripped icicle like after my first long, fast and hot sojourn out to Ely Nevada. I doubt that they could be ceramic coated now. So when Maseratisource had a set of SS Bora headers on sale I bout them. They had a preformed dent on the RH one so I returned them. Perhaps I was hasty? I'd already had a bad experience with SS Exhaust from him on another car.

    These are very hand made cars. Make a template for the curve of the door skin where the mirrors mount and compare right to left. Amazing difference.
    So maybe there is no one configuration that fits all of them perfectly ?

     
  17. rga

    rga Formula Junior

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    So this picture below must also be of 1028, I was not sure about it.

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  18. Nembo1777

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    #10391 Nembo1777, Jun 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
    Hi Roger, yes because 1286 has chrome round mirrors.

    In other news:

    -I just spoke with a long time garage owner in the Toulouse south west France area and he dealt with a couple of Khamsins in period. The news is however that he has a colleague who owns a tired dark blue K and is busy rebuilding the engine, that's another unknown one to emerge from the woodwork:)! More info as I get it, I will meet the man in a couple of weeks.

    -A K was spotted at the Spa Francorchamps circuit this past weekend during the Spa Italia event, German plates, I thought it could be AM120US1262 but the mirrors are different, any idea Roger?



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  19. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Marc,

    Just some minor corrections. I purchased 1028 directly from Greg in February 2011 (not on ebay in 7/2009). I've known his family for many years and a few years later I would buy a green 365 GT 2+2 and a red 246 GT Dino from his dad. At the time, the Khamsin had Euro bumpers in the rear and US bumpers in the front.

    Ivan
     
  20. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    Ahah duly noted thanks Ivan;-)
     
  21. rga

    rga Formula Junior

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    Hello Marc

    This is Achim's 1160, previously yellow car.
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  22. Nembo1777

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    #10395 Nembo1777, Jun 15, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2022
    Ah yes thank you, a car that was in Illinois -its owner had contacted me- and after having to wait several years for him to decide I brokered it to Ivan who sold it to Achim.
    Achim is a very qualified engineer and did a fantastic job on it.

    Here is how it was when bought in Illinois...it was not born yellow but originally white.

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  23. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
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    Wins the price of most abused Khamsin I've owned. Glad it went to Achim who resurrected it.

    Ivan
     
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  24. Nembo1777

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    #10397 Nembo1777, Jun 21, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
    Hello all,

    1,5M views for our little thread in 14 years not bad:)!

    A restoration was recently finished in Germany with a gorgeous stunning result, although I am partial to the color: Oro Kelso with senape (mustard) interior, exactly like my ex Monsterati.

    What is interesting is the background of the car's story.

    It is chassis AM120-070 sold new to Japan. Like all K's sold there it is left hand drive because Japanese buyers want it "Like in Italy."

    I haven't asked the factory for its new colors but in any case after some years of normal life at one point it was painted all white, including the bumpers and fitted with shocking monster rims and tires; a bit of a Tokyo mafia custom look. That owner clearly missed the good taste class. I had the poor quality photo on my Registry site in the early years as a mystery car.

    I thought it had vanished like a number of Japanese market cars left to rot outside...but then suddenly a post appeared, right here in this thread, in December 2015:

    Hi there,

    I am from New Zealand, based in Auckland. I have purchased a Maserati Khamsin in Japan which will arrive in NZ 5th January. I am wanting to know the original factory color and any other information on the car. Is anyone able to help me with that or point me in the right direction? Maserati in NZ have told me they don't keep records beyond 1980 and this is a 1974. The VIN number is AM120070.

    The odometer shows 28k so that's pretty low if original.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my message and I look forward to your reply.

    Many Thanks
    Trevor

    End of quote.

    Then it ended up being bought out of New Zealand by its current German owner.

    So 070 has had a very unusual life and itinerary.

    Here are photos of 070 through the years and just completed recently: bravo to its owner, it looks stunning:)!

    Interestingly this same German enthusiast had already arranged extensive work on a previous Khamsin. An automatic to manual gearbox swap (a big job) and bumper conversion on AM120US1114 which was also Oro kelso Senape and had sat in a museum in South east Germany. He then sold it within Germany when someone kept nagging him to buy it.


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  25. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    PS: Fabio Collina of Maserati Archivio Storico told me 070 was silver black new, completed 10 May 1974 and sent to Yokohama.

    I must thank Bal for, back in 2015, having encouraged Trevor the New Zealander to post in this thread.
     
  26. staatsof

    staatsof Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    What's the round cutout on the left side of the center console adjacent to the ashtray about?
    The car looks quite lovely, nuovo, meglio di nuovo!

    [​IMG]
     
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  27. Froggie

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    I may be wrong but I think that this K does not have its original mag Campagnolo wheels.
    These look to be alloy replicas in 16" or maybe 17"
     
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