http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3555630,00.html He has won two races this year, how far can he go
Of course he could, he's in a Ferrari. Will he? I doubt it, I think Raikkonen will make it a double. Massa will win several races though, for sure.
no doubt. still don't know why he gets bashed. he is the best #2 driver out there. in fact, he is just about perfect in that role.
My money is on Kimi, but it could happen. Start a topic "Kubica could win the World Title" and I'll be impressed.
Really? And how many WCCs has he brought to Ferrari? You need to remove your Massa-colored glasses and take an objective look at what he has done relative to previous incumbants of that same seat with Ferrari. He has yet to accomplish what Irvine and Rubens both have before him... I find it ridiculous that the same folks complaining about criticism of Massa after two races are now ready to anoint him as WDC after two more. Massa has had his moment in the sun on two courses, that Mark Hughes of Autosport correctly points out, favors his driving style. Unfortunately most of the remaining part of the season is on tracks where he fades. This thread is going to look pretty ridiculous in a couple of weeks once Massa fades back to his typical performance.
Of course he could win the title. The problem is that there is a more consistent driver that make less mistakes in the other red car. Something would have to happen to Kimi for it to happen. Kimi was off this weekend and finished 3rd. We all see where Massa finishes when he's off.
..and YOU need to remove your anti-Massa-colored glasses Massa might take the title this year. I hope he does, but I do realize that Kimi is still in the better position for the title...
One - last year. He also brought Kimi the WDC. It looks like he will help Ferrari to the WCC this year as well, and maybe, just maybe, he might get himself a WDC.
Why? Because I recognize the truth? That Massa isn't doing anything with the car that Rubens did before him? That I recgnize the inadequcies of his driving? That I refuse to ignore the fact that unlike the other top runners, Massa has yet to beat a teammate in an equal car? That I recognize Massa's performance comes with considerable limitations, that he is only good on tracks that suit him? That he can't make a pass to save his life? That the first drop of rain means his race is over? Why don't you take a look at all those posts last season about Hamilton being lucky because he is in the best car on the grid. blah, blah, blah and substitute the name Massa for Hamilton. Then tell me what is different. I will: Hamilton finished higher in the points than his WDC teammate and he has helped his team score more points than any other on the track. When Massa can do that, then we'll talk but until then he is simply yet another midpack driver being enormously flattered by his machinery. Nothing more.
Wrong. The intervention of the FIA and the sterwards in Hungary gave the WCC to Ferrari. They were OUTPOINTED on the track. That is 100% Massa fault.
no point in discussing this until the glasses come off I am afraid What will you say IF Massa ends up the 2008 WDC though - that he was the luckiest F1 driver ever?
I guess the world might look a little different without the glasses? I never really felt F1 drivers should be personally responsible for putting gas in the cars for example...
Massa will never become a WDC as long as his teamate is Kimi. They don't call Kimi the Iceman for nothing. I don't think that lowly of Massa, but at the same time I am not convinced that he could win the WDC if he was the only Ferrari driver. Then his problem would be Hami and the process of being able to beat him in the McLaren would most likely be too big of a hill to climb for Massa...once again.
Massa would be leading the WDC now if not for the two mistakes he made earlier this season. That said, those two mistakes are indicative of why the odds against him being WDC are strong.
Five races, no points in first two, within following 3 races two wins and now only 7 points behind #1 and tied for second. And he did beat his teammate on the track in both wins. He even beat Schumacher at least once when he started 21st in Malaysia, Schumacher starting 14th, Massa finished 5th, Michael 6th. The fact that Ferrari was outpointed on the track in 2007 is not solely Massa's fault, that is ridiculous to even state in public, it should be equally shared with Raikkonen who took a very long time to get used to the Ferrari. In fact, Massa carried Ferrari's colors the first half of the season. If Massa had not given his certain win to Raikkonen in Brazil 2007, they would both have had an equal amount of wins for the season and Kimi would not have won the WDC. Yes, I certainly believe he can do it. Will he? At this time odds are 50/50, but increasing with every race.
Ted, quit making up stuff. Facts speak for themselves for these drivers in THEIR FIRST TWO YEARS years at Ferrari: Rubens: Wins-1 Poles-0 Race Fast Laps-4 Podium-19 (Despite being in F1 for over a billion races, he has only won 9 times TOTAL) Finished first two seasons 4th and 3rd, with 7 retirements. Eddie: Wins-0 Poles-0 Race Fast Laps-1 Podiums-6 Finished first two seasons 11th and 24th, with 16 retirements. You really can not put all the blame on the car as Michael Schumacher did win 3 races in 1996 and finished third in WDC points in the same car. Felipe: Wins-5 Poles-9 Race Fast Laps-8 Podiums-17 Finished first two seasons 3rd and 4th with 4 retirements. Now unless one is truly myopic in their thinking, it would fairly easy to say that Felipe Massa is doing better in his first two seasons with Ferrari than the two drivers you mentioned as having been better. Now in 2008 he is tied for second only 7 points behind his teammate. Massa is earning his pay very well, actually should get a raise. I am still in awe of the Massa bashing, makes no sense whatsoever.
Massa is a more polished racer than Barichello, in my book. I have nothing nice to say about Irvine, I'm afraid! It looks like since Schumacher's departure, Ferrari doesn't mind its #2, to be a more challenging driver than before. Massa could quite possibly become WDC, and I don't think Ferrari would mind either. Kimi might!
In Rubens' first season at Ferrari, every race he finished in 4th or above. In Massa's first season at Ferrari, Felipe only finished half the season in 4th or above. Being consistent is the goal of the number 2 driver, something that Rubens was much better at then Felipe.
Got to thinking, Felipe is in his third season at Ferrari, so how does he compare with Rubens and Eddie in their first five races of their respective third season? Rubens: 1) retired (pole) 2) retired 3) retired 4) 2nd 5) DNS Did win a TOTAL of four for the season Eddie: 1) 4th 2) 8th 3) 3rd 4) 3rd 5) retired Didn't win a race his third season, although second three times, retired three times. Felipe: 1) retired 2) retired (pole) 3) 1st 4) 2nd 5) 1st (pole) So far, it still looks like Felipe is doing better than previous Ferrari teammates. You do not want to see how Gilles compares, it does not look good. For Gilles that is. To go one more step further, how did Felipe compare with his own teammate in 2007, Kimi Raikkonen? Kimi: Wins-6 (Brazil gifted when Felipe "pulled over" so KR could win WDC) Podiums-12 Poles-3 Fast Race Laps-6 Retirements-2 (I previously made a mistake and thought Kimi only won 5 times in 2007 mis-stating that without Brazil, Kimi and Felipe would have been tied for wins, I was wrong, it would have been 5/4 favoring Kimi) Felipe: Wins-3 (leading Brazil, pulled over to allow KR to win WDC) Podiums-9 Poles-6 Fast Race Laps-6 Retirements-2 Least we not forget that in reality, based on salary, Kimi's $45mil to Felipe's $6mill, Kimi should be doing better than Felipe. I will say again, I do not see any reason for the Massa bashing, he is doing his job well enough to have had a contract extention until 2010. If he continues to focus for the balance of the season, it will be a race for the WDC between Kimi and Felipe. And the car seems to suit Felipe a bit better. And wait, I read in this thread some wrong comment about Felipe's rain performance, if I remember correctly he did just fine in the rain last season including a really great pass on I think Heikki.
Massa sure could be WDC but I doubt it'll happen. Kimi seems to do well under pressure mainly because he doesn't let it get to him. This past weekend was a tougher weekend and the next couple of races have historically favored the mclarens, but I think Kimi will win at least 4-5 more races this year.
You forgot to mention that in their first Ferrari season, Felipe won twice and finished 3rd in points, to Ruben's 1 win and 4th in points. At the end of the day, where you finish in points is all that matters. Bottom line, all that matters is the current season and tied for second while scoring points in three races is significant, especially winning two of them. I would like to see Felipe be WDC, but all that matters is that the driver of an all red car wins the 2008 WDC.
