'Massa could win the World title'

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I could not care less which of the 20 lads on the grid wins the championship, as long as they wear red overalls with the italian tricolore.

 

+1

 

If you convert Felipe's points in 2006 to the point system in 2000 (10-6-4-3-2-1), Felipe scored 57 points in 16(18-2 retirements) races. A measly 3.56 points per race.
In 2000 Rubens scored 62 points in 13 races (17-4 retirements) or 4.77 points per race. Statistically Rubens actually did better than Felipe did.

If you convert Ruben's scores in 2000 to 2006 scoring system, he scored 86 points. Or about 6.6 points per finish.
Felipe OTOH scored 80 points. Or about 5.3 points per finish.

Statistically, if you put Rubens in Felipe's place, Rubens scores 100 points (to Massa's 80) Ferrari wins the 2006 Constructor Championship and maybe we get Michael Schumacher for another year.

Either way you look at it, Rubens was much more consistent and better than Felipe.

 

That's all it really comes down to in the end. I'd prefer Kimi but Felipe would be almost as good.

 

If you recognize all that, then it's too bad you didn't recognize that he'll win 4 races this year. What sets Massa apart from Barrichello and Irvine, is his raw speed. Massa has a raw pace that allows him, when he's on, to beat even Kimi. Will he beat Kimi to a title? No, I don't think so, BUT he has the ability to win several races with that Ferrari.

 

I just watched the race with some friends and an old man in a piadina shop on the road to Maranello from Marina di Ravella. Visited the shops and museum at Maranello. Talked with a bunch of random Italians at a kart track.












No one likes Massa. Everyone was cheering for Kimi.







HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Made me laugh.

 

Doesn't surprise me. Kimi honestly comes off as a cool badass or sorts. Massa (and this might just be partly due to his voice) comes across as a little *****. Kimi's just the man what can you say.

 

I wonder why

 

From what I gathered:

FERRARI won yesterday, but KIMI had a great drive. The old man in the piadina shop was going off in Italian and shaking his head (as were we) when Lewis passed Massa like a rookie. And he was shouting at the tv when Kimi was pushing Lewis and setting fast lap at the end of the race. When he almost lost it coming out of (i forget what corner) all crossed up on the steering wheel we all sighed a breath of relief and I think everyone watching could tell he was doing everything he could to bring his Cavallo home as high as possible. After that moment, Kimi backed off and matched Lewis's pace for the final 1 1/2 laps to take the points. Smart!


Another funny thing is at the Ferrari store in Maranello, tey are sold out of 1:43 F2007 Kimi models. While they have shelves of Massa models. I askedif there were more Kimi ones and the girls laughed and said no, everyone buys them too quick.



BURN!

 

Between Senna and Schumi, people have gotten the impression that nice guys just can't be winners.

Or maybe it's something in the trends of modern culture, rather than an F1 thing.

But I have to say that people who claim that Massa could never be WDC just aren't considering the history: Damon Hill was WDC. Mansell was WDC. JV was WDC. Count the number of WDCs. Count the number of Fangios, Sennas, and Schumis.

Massa isn't Schumi. But the performance he put in last year would have been good enough for WDC, if he'd been teamed with anyone except Kimi or Alonso. (I think Ferrari would have been out of the running completely, with Alonso fighting Massa *and* the team.)

Massa winning because he's with Ferrari? Think Alonso will be WDC in this year's Renault? Of course being with a top team is part of winning.

But Massa is one of the better drivers at vehicle development. Phil is a contributor to *why* Ferrari is a leading team. Losing a development driver is part of the reason that McLaren isn't. Kubi may be out-scoring Nick, at times, but Nick is more likely one of the reasons that the Kubi's BMW can contend. If Lewis owed some of his success last year to Alonso's car development, then Kimi's WDC came, in part, from Phil's car development, too.

Looking at the data objectively, Massa tends to be a bit inconsistent during races. Well, nobody has Schumi's mechanical consistency. But Phil is still a bit inconsistent, even compared to the current front runners. Raikkonen has some off moments, too, although he seems to recover from them better.

Phil is also consistently a better qualifier than Kimi. He's better at laying down a fast lap when it counts. He just needs improve at doing 60 in a row.

WDC is a matter of being in the right place at the right time.

Massa and Raikkonen complement each other's talents. Either of them would be WDC material in that car at this moment in time. Having them both is great for Ferrari, but it means that there's considerable competition for WDC within the team, as well as from others.

Which is good for "the show".

Massa isn't Senna. But people forget that Senna had bouts of inconsistency, and some downright foolish blunders of his own. Fewer as his career went on. I've heard people here ready to lynch Massa for mistakes that weren't nearly as odd as some of the DNFs Ayrton racked up.

And Phil is still improving. Some people don't see that. Some don't want to see that.

Personally, I'm looking forward to a good fight for WDC between the Ferrari drivers, with Lewis, Heikki, and even Fernando, Robert and Nick making it more interesting.

I'm not a fan of F1 becoming a "spec" series, but the competition between drivers is making it a more interesting year than I thought it would be.

Those who would rather see Ferrari lose than see Massa win, ...

Well, I don't understand the commuters who would rather block other cars than get somewhere themselves, either.

 

You are stretching, we are not under that old point system so your analagy is silly. Either way you look at it, the truth, reality, Felipe Massa has done much better than Rubens all day long. Massa has 7 wins in three seasons, Rubens has only 9 in total in 16 seasons.

Let's do it this way, the honest way:

Ruben's 519 total points (in 16 seasons) in 254 starts or 2.01 points per race, 9 wins, 13 poles, 16 fast laps IN 16 total F1 SEASONS, percentage of wins to starts 4%.

Felipe 229 total points (in 3 seasons!) in 91 starts or 2.5 points per race, 7 wins, 11 poles, 8 race fast laps IN 7 total F1 SEASONS, percentage of wins to starts 7%.

You want me to go on?

You and the rest of the Massa bashers have no concept. Statistically, and that's all that matters, I am right, and you are wrong. Massa has been better for Ferrari than Rubens, and I like Rubens a lot. I told myself I would not get involved with such trolling BS, this is it, last time. Anything anyone says concerning this topic should included real statistics, not what if we were under the old point system crap, we are not.

Thank you. ;}

 

We'll never know, that's like asking what will I do if martians land in my backyard.

 

You disregard the fact that Ferrari spent 1/4 (not counting 2005, the Ferrari was crap) of his career at Ferrari, while Felipe has spent over half.

 

I think you have a better chance of finding ET in your backyard then Massa winning the WDC.

 

You must be kidding.

The closest lap times ever recorded to Michael Schumacher was Rubens...by a far margin. No other Schumacher teammate, Massa included, ever came as close to Schumacher's lap times as did Barrichello. On raw speed, Barrichello in that same car was much faster than Massa...and even more importantly he was far more consistent.

It is one thing to look at Massa's performance on one of the very few tracks that favor his driving style and try to argue that Massa is amazingly fast. Tell me that again when you see Massa on a course like Hungary. He doesn't just look ordinary, he looks downright mediocre. He looks like a WDC contender on one track and he looks like a backmarker on another. That, my friend, is NOT the mark of a WDC contender.

Rubens put together several seasons where he finished second only to Michael Schumacher.

Massa, on the other hand,,,the driver Ron claims has shown the most improvement over one season of any driver Ron has ever seen in his very extensive experience in F1...managed to go from 3rd in the standings to 4th...

Is that what constitutes improvement?

 

He also disregards the fact htat Rubens consistently beat his teammate prior to arriving at Ferrari, took pole positions in lesser machinery, and very nearly won a GP in the Stewart.

Massa, on the other hand, was such a pathetic driver that he was actually fired by Sauber after his first season and was only taken back by the team because they needed the Ferrari engines.

 

I guess we should exclude a couple other years as well then, when the Ferrari was in a class for itself?

After all, it would hardly be fair to compare results achieved in the F2004 to those achieved with the F248 from 2006?!

There will always be multiple ways to approach the numbers, but I don't think any objective individual could look at the numbers and conclude that Barichello is superior to Massa.

 

I take it math was not your strongest subject in school then

Perhaps you could estimate the probability of either scenario?

 

Massa is faster than Rubens, I give you that. People like Rubens help Ferrari win the WCC by being consistent.

Felipe cost Ferrari the 2006 WCC by not being consistent, he scored 2/3 of what MS did in the same car when MS was past his prime.

Most people on here agree that they would rather have a consistent Rubens who will bring the car home in the points rather than a fast Felipe who alternates between wins and retirements.

 

Massa IS also such a pathetic driver that he has only won 2 out of 5 races so far this year. Imagine that - only 40% - truly pathetic.

 

psssst:

Kimi Raikkonen. 491 total points (in 7 seasons) in 126 starts or 3.9 points per race, 17 wins, 15 poles, 27 race fast laps IN 7 total F1 SEASONS, percentage of wins to starts 13.5%.

 

"Most people" - really?

Well, for the last three races Massa has alternated between victory, second, and back to victory.

Would "most people" prefer Rubens over that as well?

 

You're conveniently ignoring the fact, that this year 3 of Massa's 4 winning tracks have been placed in a row.

The only way Massa could win the title is if Kimi gets injured to the point that he can no longer participate. And even then Hami would most likely beat Massa.

 

Remind me what happened in the first two races. He decided to spin himself off with no one near him, and attempted to destroy the Red Bull.

How soon we forget. Not to mention the last 3 tracks are 3 of the 4 Massa tracks (the other being Interlagos), I highly doubt he can keep up his current form.

 

You may be right... only time will tell - I think it is waaay too early to write him off yet though.
Oh.... And I think the chances are a little better than those of meeting ET in the backyard