Massa Support Thread

We have to support Massa as he is a driver for Ferrari. We should all know Ferrari first, drivers second. As much as I would like the Mass-take out of the seat until then I hope he fills out the podium after Kimi wins.

 

I never thought about it like that, good point

 

There have been a few greats whose life was cut short before they could win a WDC. Ronny Peterson comes to mind for one. There have been a few great drivers that never won a WDC, but there have been several mediocre drivers who have won a WDC.

 

No one can ever take away the fact that he made it to the best team and has won races and Q1 multiple times. Some great racers lived their whole lives never achieving this. I would love just to drive an F1 car one time, but I may never achieve this. My hat is off to all that drive in F1 as it's not like there's minutes a lap different between them. If most of the bashers came under a fraction of the criticizm in their careers they would have turned and ran by now. I think the kid's got B@lls.

Go Phil Go.

May the Red cars win.

 

Felipe Massa has my full support.

EVERYONE makes mistakes, hopefully Felipe has filled his quota for quite some time, and will bounce back with a victory this weekend.

 

I still think Massa can do a good job and gets a buy for a couple of screwups considering what he did for the team last year. If he doesn't do at least ok in Bahrain though I'm gonna have to jump on the Massa-hating bandwagon.

 

Finally a positive thread in the racing section. Go Massa!

 

well, i remember lots of ppl calling for Kimbo's head last season. some even said it was Ferrari's worst signing ever. but all if forgotten when he won the WDC. like MS said, if Massa wins the WDC, everything will be forgotten.

 

Absolutely. I think Stirling Moss is the most flagrant example of a truly great driver who never won a WDC.

If winning a WDC were recognized as a true sign of greatness, FA would get substantially more respect on this board.

Back to Massa: Let´s see what happens in Bahrein. Two mistakes should be tolerated; three mistakes on the other hand... But I fully agree that we should support Ferrari drivers, and Massa is one of them.

Julio

 

The only place where repeating "the sky is falling!" over and over causes the sky to fall is in the economy.

 

Let's keep things in perspective, shall we? If you think F1 is competitive, you should try working on Wall Street. If I had as bad a run as Massa had in the last two weeks, I would be out of work and there would be a good chance my firm would be out of business. This past month alone, there have been several very high profile firm collapses, Bear Stearns the most notable.

And my situation pales in comparison to others on these boards. I am sure there are more than a few surgeons on these boards. Ask them what a bad day at the office feels like. My brother is an FBI agent, the pressures most of us face are no comparison to what he deals with.

I have no sympathy for an F1 driver facing criticism. At the end of the day, they are in the entertainment business.

 

A real supporter is someone who supports their team and drivers in good as well as bad times. People who critize at every chance they get take things way too seriously, mostly themselves. I have no sympathy for such 'supporters'.

 

The biggest farce of all time is comparing Gilles "I live to drive sideways" Villeneuve to Felipe "I will 100% spin-out" Massa.

I typed something up, but heeded what thread this is, and wish to only present evidence in the form of photographs.
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Forza Massa!

 

I've been a Ferrari supporter ever since I picked up my first car magazine over 35 years ago. I've never supported Mclaren,Williams or Renault and I'm not about to start right now.

I have been hugely dissapointed with Massa's performance the last two races but as long as he drives a red car I have NO CHOICE but to support him and Kimi 100%.

Go Massa Go Kimi.

 

I support Massa by virtue of his position as a Ferrari driver not on his own merit.

 

Massa is going to make a big come back and win it all this year, and then I woke up from my nap.

 

This was no evidence, only your biased opinon. And wrong at that.

You need to refresh yourself on Gilles' history. Like in 1982 while leading the Brazilian GP he spun out. Or like the time he tried to pass Petersen but ended up killing two spectators. You also need to understand the difference in the cars between then and now. Gilles best finish for the WDC in 6 years of trying with Ferrari was 2nd. The other five were 7th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 36th. In six years he won six times. Thirteen podiums, two poles, eight fastest laps. The reason this is impressive is that the Feraris he drove were basically crap cars most of those years.

Now take a look at Massa's statistics his first two years while at Ferrari, which was a crap car in 2006 and early 2007. In his first two years at Ferrari, five wins, seventeen podiums, ten poles, eight fastest laps, and one DSQ. In his now equivilent six years of F1 he raced the first three with Sauber.

I am certainly not trying to reduce the image of Gilles Villeneuve one iota so please, don't start with that stupidity. But I am trying to explain to some of you that Massa's performance has not been any worse to date, in fact comparitively better than many so called "racing gods". Including Gilles Villeneuve, a driver whose car control skill in that era was extrodinary. If you look at the statistics, the number of retirements, DSQ's, Massa is certainly no worse.

Another irony of comparison, Gilles enjoyed the same "family" relationship at Ferrari as does Felipe. And now Massa is being criticized in a similar manner as Villeneuve during his career, Gilles being called wreckless, and Felipe being called inconsistent.

Like I said before, I think Massa is quite good, has not lived up to his full potential, and can win the WDC. He is a driver for Scuderia Ferrari, this is my team, I supported Kimi last year when he was not integrating with the team, and I continue to support Massa this year despite two mistakes. Despite the connection to Todt, a very crass Montezemelo would never have approved the inital contract nor the contract renewal of Massa if at trackside (unlike any of us) they did not see Felipe's potential.

I have no sympathy for those so called Ferrari fans that are there only when things are going well. I also have no sympathy for those of you that continue to slam any driver whose statistics are as good as Massa's while at Ferrari.

 

Ron:

Let's be honest here: you also claimed you would no longer support the team if they employed Alonso. Do you still feel that way?

I find it difficult to reconcile the statements that Massa ought to be supported simply because he drives for Ferrari with the statement that one would no longer support Ferrari if they hired Alonso. Either you support the team AND its drivers or you support the team REGARDLESS of its drivers. I fall into the latter camp, some folks apparently don't fall into either. Which camp are you in?

 

Ted, I see a big difference in these situations, in this case it is not simply one or the other. I do not believe that Alonso's personality would be good for Ferrari, that hasn't changed. Ironically, I have become impressed with Alonso's driving now at Renault in a crap car. I admit he is one of the best of the last 30 years.

At the time I made that comment Alonso was admitting his part in the use of the Ferrari documents. He never would have made that admission if he were not given clemancy. He knowingly used stolen information about another team. I have a problem with that. I also have a problem with the way Alonso behaved towards his own McLaren team.

So this is not an issue of just supporting at team in bad times, to me this is an issue of supporting a team that only for the win would hire a driver guilty of the potentially illegal and questionable acts of Alonso. This is a sport, somewhere you must draw the line of ethics and proper behavior.

So, yes, I feel the same way as before without any reservation. I understand Italian fans feel the same way. Now if he asked for forgiveness from the Pope...............................;}

 

Hello Ron how are you feeling?

Not to hijack the thread but i think the comparison with Gilles is not a fair one either. Gilles and Felipe have comparable numbers on paper but that doesn't tell the whole story. The era was different, while Gilles drove a crap wagon most of the time, the F2006 and F2007 were far from being crap cars as you stated. Michael almost won the title in it and seemed faster that FA most of the year and Kimi did win the title after he got comfortable with the team and the car. That doesn't mean the car was bad. Felipe has simply done less with more whereas Gilles did more with less. Gilles spinning while leading in Brazil is one of those things that happen while trying to go faster. Crashing while trying to pass someone also happens while trying to go faster. As the old saying goes, if you don't put it in the fence once in a while, you aren't trying hard enough. Michael went off the road while leading several times during his career, it's a lapse in concentration, and can happen to all the top drivers while trying to go faster or maintain a lead. Felipe throwing the car off the road because he got passed by Hamilton last year, however was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen and speaks volumes as to how weak mentally Felipe is. That is the difference between Gilles and Felipe, Felipe gives up when the car isn't right, Gilles used to grab it by the scruff of the neck and get the most he could out of it which is why he's so fondly remembered to this day.

Luis

 

Everyone felt the same when Michael joined the team. They forgot about that rather quickly....: )

 

+1 Great post,

Less with more, more with less..on the money with that.

 

Doing OK Luis, thanks for asking.

I don't agree with you about the comparison. Massa's statistics are in only two year's driving with Ferrari. The F2006 was crap especially coming to "grips" with the Bridgestones, and the F2007 had serious handling problems and that strange design mistake of a long wheelbase. If the cars were that good, Michael would have won the WDC both years. The Ferrari's of Gilles' era were not always crap, they allowed Schecter and Villeneuve to finish 1/2 in the WDC.

I must also disagree with your comment about Massa being passed by Hamilton and then losing it. Maybe we are talkinig about two different events, but the one I am thinking about is when Massa tried to pass Hamilton early in the season, just as Kimi tried to pass I think Hekki the first race this year, and Massa lost it making the attempt on Hamilton, as did Kimi. And as did numerous other drivers like Gilles when trying to make the pass, as you say "while trying to go faster".

I do not agree with your comment that Massa just gives up when the car is not right. We don't really know what goes on in the car or on the pit wall. Possibly in those situations the car is just not handling well, maybe the tires are wrong, I have no idea. I remember Michael just driving around the track in a few races appearing to give up but actually driving a difficult car. I do remember Massa in his first season at Ferrari coming from 21st to I think 4th or 5th in one race and beating Schumacher, he didn't give up then. What I am saying is we would be guessing to suggest Massa just gives up. We do not know the facts.

I agree with your comment about "if you don't put it in the fence once in a while, you aren't trying hard enough." I also agree with your statement about a driver losing concentration. It happens.

As for Gilles driving style, the cars are different, can anyone really say that Massa does not do the same in order to post the fast times that he achieves? I think they would be guessing, they are not in the car, they don't really know how the car handles. Gilles slid his car around the track, you can't do that with today's F1 car and expect a good time.

So why don't those statements apply to Felipe Massa? Isn't this being a bit hypocritical? I mean its OK that Gilles lost it trying to pass Ronnie Petersen and then went airborne and killed two spectators, now he is a "racing god"? It is OK that Michael Schumacher lost it a few times? Is it OK, that Kimi has spun out twice this season, yet it is not OK that Felipe has done the same?

Please, Luis I am not trying to slam you personally, I just want you to see the lack of reasoning of this anti-Massa BS. Statistically Massa has done much better than most, I do not see the logic of slamming him at all. NO ONE has provided any emperical information that would substantiate such criticism.