Interesting.... Lewis Hamilton's 2008 Champion In Dispute As Former F1 Driver Considers Legal Action Lewis Hamilton's 2008 Champion In Dispute As Former F1 Driver Considers Legal Action (msn.com) Former F1 driver Felipe Massa is reportedly considering legal action to challenge the outcome of the 2008 Formula 1 world championship, which he lost to Lewis Hamilton. Massa's decision comes after former F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone made comments about the critical 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, where Nelson Piquet Jr. caused a crash that brought out a safety car and ultimately helped his Renault teammate Fernando Alonso win the race. The controversy had a huge influence on the title battle, with Massa's Ferrari crew messing up one of his pitstops that dropped him down the order and allowed Hamilton to grab third. The seven-time champion ended up winning the championship by a single point. Despite the incident, the FIA refused to cancel the Singapore GP's result, as the classification from each season is set in stone under the International Sporting Code once the FIA Awards ceremony is complete. Massa, however, thinks that there are grounds to review things once again in the wake of recent comments from Ecclestone confessing that he and the FIA were aware of the rules breach before the end of the 2008 season.
I put the entire story here. I was not wanting to start a new thread.He is basing this on Bernie speaking on it lately - https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/bernie-speaks.634800/page-5
Hamilton counter sue's to keep things as they are.....(jk). The LH44 fanbase will cry foul against Massa.
I don't see how Massa can explain that Piquet Jr was responsible for his botched fuel stop. I don't see the link between the 2. It was just a coincidence. The Ferrari crew was responsible for Massa's DNF. It will be entertaining to watch what comes of this.
Agreed. For Massa to pin Singapore2008 the "be all and end all" of his season is ridiculous. Massa, to include Ferrari, had other issues within the season that contributed to him losing 2008.
To me, Massa dragging the fuel hose, leading to his DNF at Singapore in 2008 was a typical case of "unsafe release". How he wants to pin that on the Piquet incident, I can't fathom out. Some people can never let go, it seems, even 15 years later ! I used to like Massa, but it looks like he is just another argumentative little sod. Stirling Moss was more cool about losing a championship, and never b1tched about it.
What I have been reading is that bother Bernie E. and Max M. knew about the deliberate Piquet crash. So, (1) the Singapore results should have been eliminated from the scoring. Apparently this is something that Bernie is admitting should have happened according to the rules. (2) IF the results are not counted for championship points then it would not matter that Massa had a DNF. (3) No Singapore points for anyone means Massa would have won the championship. Would this have changed the Constructors Championship too? IF so, that would have meant a change in the money distribution. I do believe that all this does indicate that there was a bias for Lewis from early on.
Is there a precedent to this in F1? I mean a race cancelled because a participant/team had cheated ? Because the opposite happened: results standing after a driver was disqualified for a whole season, but kept his wins !
This ^^^ Remove the scandalous Singapore race from 2008 ... meaning, remove all points from Singapore ... and Massa is 2008 world champ. It would seem that Massa has a case, except for the long period of time to take legal action.
direct quotes from Ecclestone: “We had enough information in time to investigate the matter. According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions. “That means it would never have happened for the championship standings. And then Felipe Massa would have become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton.” That's a pretty damning admission ...
I am of the opinion that the 2008 result should stand regardless, in the interest of the sport. . No sport should revisit the results of 15 years ago, IMO. There should be prescription once the championship is final. If there are doubts, discrepencies, suspicion, they should have been dealt soon after, not more than a decade later. And all this triggered by what could be a malicious statement from Bernie ? If a legal action comes out of this, it will open a pandora box, and many other results will be challenged in future. As for possibly overturning the 2008 championship result in court, that would irremediably damage F1 credibility.
Respect for Massa goes way down to me. There is a certain amount of time to appeal a result, typically before the next race even happens, let alone once the next season starts, let alone 15 years later! I get it. It sucks, but there are dozens of what ifs and opinions about each and every season that could alter the results as they stand. Ferrari threw away the championship in Singapore, and regardless of the illegal actions of Renault, that's on Ferrari. If Massa shamelessly tries to take legal action to change a result 15 years later, and if he somehow wins... then you might as well set fire to all of F1's records and shut the doors on the sport. The can of worms it will open would be disastrous.
That's the real issue here. Ecclestone admitted that rules/statutes were broken ... and known to be broken ... before the end of the 2008 season. This isn't a case of looking to the past with fresh eyes, or new rules ... but rather, uncovering events and knowledge that were in-place before the end of 2008. Indeed ... someone can be released from jail, if it's demonstrated that the prosecution knew or had exculpatory evidence before or during the trial, but chose to keep it hidden from the defense and the court.
What if documentation is uncovered that states, explicitly, that the FIA "knew" ... before the end of 2008 ... that Singapore results should be thrown out, and that "keeping" those results were against FIA rules? In other words, what if FIA documents ... written during 2008 ... admit that the results were against the rules? This isn't about fresh perspectives or "new" expert opinions regarding 2008 ... but rather the FIA themselves, during 2008, possibly admitting that the results were illegal. I think there's a case to be made. And it won't tarnish or spill-over to other years, unless similar documents or admissions that were written during those years are newly uncovered.
If Ecclestone and the FIA knew there had been a breach of regulations, but didn't act upon it, they are the first guilty parties, and could be prosecuted, perhaps ? But this is an internal tribunal, I guess. So Massa and injured parties (Ferrari ?) could look for financial compensation perhaps. But I doubt if overturning the result and re-allocating the championship is feasable. It would have first to be agreed by the FIA Sporting Council, I guess.
If they were clever, those who knew were not foolish enough to leave any trace behind that could incriminate them. We are talking about well known rogues here. Max Mosley, Bernie Ecclestone, and Flavio Briatore. So far, we have only Bernie statement, as "evidence", and who knows if that would hold water. But Bernie, bless him, is known as a ****-stirrer who likes to put his name in the headlines to let people know he is still alive.
The FIA's rule book remains to be so poorly written, that it is open to interpretation multiple different ways. Even then, the FIA still seem to make decisions that don't appear to align with their own rule book. Suzuka 2022, Australia 2023 are some recent examples. I am sure nothing says "in the event a team/driver deliberately crashes the entire event results should be erased" in the rule book, but it's scary to imagine what wording exists that could mean that.
Oh, i know ... this is all "what ifs" based on a statement or two by Bernie. But i'll emphasize, once more, a pretty clear distinction: CASE 1: We can all look back on any season in F1, and determine that a rule was broken here or there. But there's NO evidence ... in-period, during that year ... that the FIA knew or admitted that rules were broken, rules with significant consequence. CASE 2: It's uncovered that not only were rules broken, but the FIA knew ... during the year in question ... that rules were broken, rules that could change the championship, but decided to keep that on the down-low. The FIA knew, but wanted it kept quiet, that if rules/statutes were actually followed (instead of broken) ... the season would have a different champion. There's a pretty clear distinction between these cases, in my view. One seems to have more "legal merit" than the other, regarding challenge/appeal.
Deliberately is the key word here, and it could be difficult to prove. What about the numerous "deliberate" contacts called racing incidents, etc ... They too affect the result. That's another can of worms perhaps.
