I consider the opposite, the pit incident is a direct consequence of the crash. Had it not occured, he would never pitted on that lap, Ferrari would never pitted both cars at the same time, adding stress to the task in hands, the probability of making a mistake increased tremendously, because they had 2 cars to serve and everyone was in the pits, so if they took more time, Felipe and Kimi could have lost several places...when you pit under normal circunstances, you usualy have a gap because cars are more spread across the track, so at most, if you take a second longer, you might only lose 1 place if the car behind is really close.
True, but triggered by Piquet accident, as i said, it's very different to do a normal, schedule pit stop than another when everyone rushes to the pit and you have both cars to service...
Yeas you can, the whole result was a fraud, in most sports, if a game is fixed, it will be nullified.
The FIA doesn't cancel races 15 months later, and after the result of the previous year declared the WDC. What other sports do is irrelevent; this is F1.
In most sports, other teams do not compete (and gain / lose points) in the "fixed" game - regarding points, cancelling an F1 race result would be the same as cancelling the whole championship day if a soccer team was caught cheating.
That's your opinion, because you only care about results and stats, but since i actualy care about the racing, to me the truth matters, so if the wrong guy was declared winner only because someone else cheated, i do care, and i always will.
The FIA can do whatever they like.....last time i checked, Shumacher doesn't have a single point in the 1997 stands...but he has several victories! go figure! Also Senna is the 1990 Champion, despite doing the very same thing that Michael did, even after admiting it....so, they don't talk to me about, can't be done, never been done....
And this is why, as I wrote a few pages back, that considering french Law, the case would have zero chance to be accepted, regarding the outcome of the championship: had the results of the Singapore race been different, then the attitude of all participants in the following races, notably the drivers, might have been different too: some might have been more agressive to fight for the lost points, some might have won more races, etc..."our" (= french) Laws consider that it is impossible to take one single factor out in a sequence of events and consider that all the following events would have not been affected and stayed exactly the same. Regarding our Laws, what Felipe lost this day, IF he lost something indeed, was not the title, but a "better chance to fight for it" ("perte de chance", for those who read french), because nobody can actually certify that the outcome of all following races would have been exactly the same had the crashgate not occured. So, again regarding french laws, Felipe would have about zero hope to have the courts change the outcome of the title race, BUT he would have a claim, under the "loss of chance" argument, to obtain compensation. This is not a question of opinion, of feelings, of "what is right and what is wrong": it is now a matter of Laws and courts. Question are, therefore, at least for me: - which juridiction and which Laws would apply? - is Bernie ready to testify under oath in front of a Court? (if not, Felipe has no case and should go home right now, stop being plucked by the lawyers, and go fishing) Rgds
It eludes a few here that there is zero connection between the issue in the Ferrari pits, and the race being subverted by Renault and eventually Bernie and the FIA that is the focus of Massa!!!
This was a crime that occurred on Singapore territory. Local fans were cheated. Id like to see Massa sue the Bernie team and FIA there!!
Unless Felipe has evidence in the sense of the courts, that is a statement under oath from the offender, he has no claim, nowhere. Simple as that. Bernie says he doesn't even remember the interview... Rgds
Bernie says that, but what if it is recorded by the guywho wrote it? We all know lawyers will say anything to get the client going, but i believe Felipe will have some good connections so he must know what his chances are before blowing some serious money on it....
You wouldn't dare to challenge Bernie's lawyers in court, would you? A record has no value whatsoever if the person recorded has not given his agreement. Even then, it has not the same value as a statement, so I'm not sure it would be considered as a "proof". Poor Felipe is really naive. He is going to lose a lot of money. The only winners will, as usual, be the lawyers. Rgds
On that we can agree, but maybe, just maybe he will get some of the luck he missed back then.....not likely though....
In truth, what eliminated Massa from the result was his pit stop. The responsability rests with the Ferrari pit crew that messed it up, and nobody else. Had the Piquet crash been "genuine", they probably have made the same mistake, IMO. Massa is conveniently putting the blame on somebody else to explain his misfortune. I don't think that would work in court, but probably there will be a settlement out of court. The sooner this issue is buried, the better.
The FIA headquarters are in Paris, that case could eventually be judged in a French court, no?. Briatore had his ban lifted by a French court, I believe.
The race was subverted is a distinct and separate issue from a Ferrari pit stop. Period - end of. They are not at all related. Talk to Bernie and refer to his statements about the race being or should have been completely discounted due to Renault and not Ferrari lol.
I suppose that Bernie could be subpoenaed as a witness by the Massa side. What Bernie allegedly said to a journalist has no value in court; it's not a sworn statement, and he can deny it. If cross-examined by Massa's lawyer, Bernie can say he forgot about it, or said it as a joke, or that this quote is attributed to him. His testimony could be soon discarded, and then what ? The whole Massa "case" would rest on an unreliable witness. If this ever come to court, I would like to be a fly on the wall to hear what happens !!!
Well, the race wasn't cancelled, and the result accepted. Now it's an old story that doesn't need to be brought back. I cannot see any interest in digging skeletons buried 15 years ago. F1 wouldn't benefit from it. Mass should should put his chin up, give up his claim, and forget about suing anyone.
So an F1 team, with a budget of hundreds of millions of dollars, should be expected to perform scheduled pitstops only? Please.
It's possible the suit (Massa knowing full well he won't be crowned the 2008 Champion) is just to get the FIA to admit that they made a mistake in not cancelling the race (Singapore2008) in its entirety due to mitigating circumstances.
Stack pit stops where teams service 2 cars in unisson aren't uncommon, and can be perfectly orchestrated. The Ferrari crew gave Massa the signal to depart when the refuelling hose wasn't disconnected; it's their fault. Massa seems to ignore that and prefer to put the blame on an unconnected incident. I am afraid it won't wash !!!
You are comparing apples and pears. Schumacher was disqualified from the WDC almost immediatly by the FIA. In this instance, Massa tries to resurrect a 15 years old story, and turn it to his advantage.
