Massa to file legal action on 2008 title?

Maybe they just figured that doping was common during these years and that any other 'winner' would trigger the same questions. At the end of the day, the runner-ups would be Ulrich, Basso, Klöden, Zülle, Landis. Not exactly a list of 'no doping connection' sportsmen.

 

OK, no WDC in 2008. Perhaps Massa can live with that, but what about Sir Lewis?

 

If the FIA and FOM agree and move forward. LH has nothing to say about it. Its the FIA mandated decision. In view of the utter idiocy of that race, and the subsequent failure of the system after during the same season, I think no title is appropriate for a team or driver. One team brought the reputation of the sport down with its actions. The episode shows how poorly governed it all was.

 

If Lewis is not a 7 but 6 times WDC, perhaps his knightship should be revoked as well?

(hurries away for shelter)

 

Olympus was the last event, after it, Markku was champion...for 11 days!
It's exacly trhe same thing, a race (or a rally) was scraped of the championship) because the result was a farse, in this case by the italian scruteneers, on the other case, by the Renault team. It doesn't matter, in both cases, the result of the competition was altered by external factors, and as such, both should not be eligeable for the championship result.
Ps: If anyone deserved a championship it was Markku, what an amazing driver he was, he held the "title" for most rally wins untill Sebastian Loeb!!

 

Wich are probably 4 more than he deserves!

 

A driver becomes a champion only once it's officially declared by the FIA at a ceremony in Paris where he receives his trophy.
Until then, the results are pending, which was exactly the case in 2008 as the Peugeot appeal was still being processed.
Tough luck for Marku Alen.

 

Exactly ! I stick to facts.

 

Why should they cancel the 2008 championship ?
Because one team cheated at one GP and nothing was found until a year later ?

 

May I kindly refer to your own post #149?

 

No, because they found something and decided to hide it!

 

Let bygones be bygones !

 

Why should i? because he's british? He didn't deserve to win, he didn't win, truth and justice should alway prevail over schemes and personal interests.

 

Nationality has no bearing in my opinion.
Revisiting previous events to challenge their outcome is called revisionism, and I don't subscribe to that mentality.

 

Well, and i don't subscribe cheating and hiding the truth just make a sport look good. That alone negates the essence of the sport.

 

If the precedent is to cancel the result of the race due to one team "cheating" or manipulating the result by an incident done deliberately, it opens the door to who knows how many other cases.

Senna deliberately crashed into Prost in 1990. Cancel the race.
Schumacher deliberate parking in Monaco 2006, cancel quali or the race too?
Schumacher deliberate crash into Hill 1994. Cancel race, good for MSC
Schumacher deliberate crash into JV in 1997, cancel the race. MSC is world champion, that's nice.
Rosberg's deliberate spin in Monaco quali 2014, Perez' same deal in 2022? Cancel those as well I guess.
McLaren all of 2007. Deliberate cheating which affected all of the results. Cancel the season?
Ferrari German GP 2010 - illegal team orders to manipulate the result. Cancel the race.
BAR secret fuel tank San Marino GP. Caught and DQ'd, but let's change it to a full Cancellation of the race.

Starting to see the lunacy of cancelling an entire event that was completed in the past because of 1 team or driver's infraction? There is an infinite amount of "coulda happened" if none of these events happened, and it is impossible to prove they could. For all we know, Piquet crashes on his own and Alonso still wins the race fairly in 2008. You punish the cheaters, not everyone that got affected by the cheaters.

Regardless, there is still no evidence that canceling an entire event after it happened was ever in the rule books.

 

This should open a door and investigation to the corruption within the FIA and Formula 1. Let alone every other sport. But we all know it will never happen and it won't go anywhere if it did.

Go look at a comment board in the Nascar world, they all believe that cheating is just part of the game. It's sad that anyone can brag about a driver when they know it could all be down to cheating. It makes you wonder how much cheating is known about and allowed by the organizers "for good of the sport".

 

It was in 1986, that's my precedent!

 

Excuse me, but this is patently false. Crashgate came to light and was brought to the attention of the proper officials before the end of the 2008 season. Those same officials actively worked to conceal the scandal, specifically robbing the teams of the opportunity to file an appeal before it was too late to change the results.

In virtually every situation I know of, intentional and active concealment of material facts constitutes an ongoing fraud (in this case, conspiracy to commit fraud) and ongoing fraud can cause otherwise enforceable transactions, time limits, statutes of limitations, etc. to be invalidated or extended.

I don't pretend to know the answer, but the question is not as clear-cut as you and some others would like it to be. It was an already ugly situation that has now become absolutely hideous.

 

You must have noticed that most of those in favour of cancelling the 2008 Singapore GP are from the anti-Hamilton lobby.

They are already gloating at the idea of seeing him stripped of one of his WDCs !

 

Disqualify Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone !

 

That should have happened long ago, particularly in 2007 when two drivers were inexplicably allowed to keep WDC points "earned" in outright illegal cars.

 

william, i honestly don't know if your refusal to understand simple points is deliberate, or not

May we kindly review?

* Massa is NOT looking for points to be added to his 2008 total

* Massa is NOT blaming his DNF at Singapore 2008 on the orchestrated crash

* The KEY point of Ecclestone's recent statement is that the FIA knew ... BEFORE the 2008 season ended ... that all Singapore 2008 points should be deleted. Let's say that one more time, so maybe it sinks in: The FIA knew, BEFORE THE END OF THE 2008 SEASON, that all Singapore 2008 points should be erased. A year did NOT pass, before the FIA knew this (according to Ecclestone). This was known DURING the 2008 season. It is THIS point that changes the picture entirely, from "revisionism" to "corrupt scandal" at the HIGHEST LEVELS of the body that governs the sport!

* IF, indeed, all Singapore 2008 points were (or are) deleted, for all teams ... then the 2008 championship changes


Seriously, are any of these points really that unclear?

 

This is a correct synopsis of the facts as we know them.

The question remains... what, if anything, can or should be done about it? I honestly don't know the answer but I do know that I want the question asked in the proper forum.

I don't think this is an unreasonable position.

 

AD 21 anyone?