Massa vs. Raikkonen ***Spoiler***

+1000

 

Because Kimi started on 15th on the grid while Massa started on 4th, and Kimi is ahead of Massa most of the race?

So the officials are not watching a one dimensional TV but present themselves at every single corner so they really understand what happened?

I am a big Kimi fan, but I will be the first to say his performance in the 2nd half of the race today disappointed me big time.
That said, Massa's performance is even worse. He doesn't deserve a seat at Ferrari.

 

That pic is about half a sec before they collided, I still say DC was to close to Massa, and he (DC) did what he always does, he ran into them to get by. Massa was only off the line in that point of the pic because DC was trying to crawl into his car with him...

Sorry, I wont change my views on this part of the race..

 

Sorry, when I said "50/50" I meant at the midpoint. I'd actually say he's a bit in front of that. No matter, he's so far inside it's hilarious.

 

LOL do you actually believe the stuff you are typing?

If Massa was on the line but got off the line because of DC, then that means DC must have passed Massa off line then got on-line? Nonsense - it didn't happen that way. DC was in front and was on line the entire time. Massa went off line to try to make the pass. Go watch the video and see how it unfolded. DC stayed on the racing line the entire time. Do you know what the racing line is? (not trying to be insulting just not sure if you know what I am talking about).

So your view is DC was off the line, Massa was on it (not sure how that happened since Massa was behind DC and swung out down the straight to come up beside him - at no point was Massa EVER in front of DC so he had no way to "take" the line from DC.

Also, it is one of the standards of ANY form of racing that just being in proximity to someone does not constitute a pass. If it did, all guys would have to do is what Massa did here - go gung-ho into a turn way off line with no hope in hell of making the corner and forcing the other guy to back off. Hell, every single turn would be a pass under that method!

I can appreciate some of you guys like to stick up for a Ferrari driver, but in this case you are just looking foolish - especially with claims that Massa was on the racing line (clearly he was not - at no point was he on the line), that Massa *was* in front of DC (clearly he was not, at any point), and that DC "ran into him". Its just lunacy. I can admit Kimi f-ed up trying to pass Heiki and Glock, how come you guys can't admit a mistake when you see it? Was his spin in the first turn a mistake or was he "run off the racing line" by Heiki that time too?

 

The way Autosport reported the race (excerpt from autosport race report):

"Lewis Hamilton took a commanding victory in the Australian Grand Prix on a disastrous day for title rivals Ferrari.

BMW's Nick Heidfeld and Williams' Nico Rosberg completed the podium, while both Ferraris retired with mechanical problems after a series of errors by drivers Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa."




Yep, that's racing. Hero one weekend, schmuck the next.

 

First off yeah Massa was in front of him because you can see DC hit Massa's front left tire, and he would of been fine in that turn if DC had not hit him.
Second, Just because DC was on a better line for a second does not mean Massa was not there first (or had taken it from DC), I still say Massa was to far to the right (in that pic) only due to trying avoid DC running into him...
From my point of view, Massa's front left tire got hit from behind by the front of DC's car, meaning he (Massa) was in front.

No need to get pissy, its just a race and my point of view...

 

well perhaps you should take a look at the track config and really get a clue what the racing line into that corner is. Massa tried to bully his way in, and the gamble backfired. or maybe you just have bad vision and can't see too clear?

 

Puff, puff, give! You've been smoking that stuff way too long man. Massa was never in front. Never.

Massa's front left tire was hit by the sidepod of DC.

 

He had the inside line. DC was careless for leaving the opening and suicidal for trying to cut him off.
God agreed. Dc blew up.


>C is on line, and out front. It was his turn. From the perspective above, at this point is where Massa ought to be >braking to let DC take the turn. Its very clear from the pic that he is off line and ain't gonna make the turn. As I said he >was trying to do the "fast in, slow out" thing -and bully DC into slowing up and moving way waaaay out of line to let him >by. Bad gamble. Especially bad gamble when you should be able to take him elsewhere.

Great gamble. Successful pass. Over analysis after the fact won't lead you to some simply superior truth.
Any one can calculate in retrospect.



>Especially bad gamble ...
>As others said, Massa lacks racecraft.

If he made the pass Kimi made on HK you would say the same thing ...
why



>Unfortunately DC paid the price for it,

DC paid the price for his own gamble.
In retrospect it was a bad gamble.

 

He didn't need to be in front before the move.
And yep, he was most def. in front after the move, which is what
the objective was.

 

Seems to me I remember the SpeedTV announcers commenting how Rubens let Kimi by in the manner the DC should have let Massa go by.

This anti Massa BS is absolutely ridiculous. The guy saved Ferrari's ass the entire first half of the 2007 season, and no one is happy. To all of you that complain about Massa, its your credibility that sucks, not Massa's. Kimi attempts a pass on Rubens this past Sunday as Massa tried on Hamilton last year and they both failed.

But at least they made the effort. I give them both credit.

 

Ohhhh mwahaha your funny...
Yeah I know what a line is, and DC must of been snorting one when HE hit Massa,not the other way around...

So talk out your a$$ all you want, but I still stand by Massa.
DC sucks and should of left 5 + seasons ago.

 

+1 Ron, I don't see how everyone can bash Massa so much. He's on the team and fighting for points just as Kimi is and today they both had poor performances, yet no one is calling for Kimi's head. Hopefully the F-cars will have a much better race next weekend so we don't have three threads bashing the drivers of the teams we're supporting.

 

Kimi started from P15, Massa on P4..... When each made their mistakes, Massa's were stupider. Simple. Kimi got 1 pt, Massa 0 pts.

 

Massa had the line and the position
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If I had just have crawled from under rock this year!! Whilst harbouring a hate for LH and starting to defend Massa (while I must add I dont dislike) I would feel more nervous than a very small Nun at a penguin shooting.

If folk believe it was DC's fault that Massa T-boned him, start a A Joke thread I like a laugh keep it it up...

 

Look at the third and fourth picture in the post above yours before you start again with the T-boning.

Of course people will bash Massa, of course they will do so with a blatant disregard to the facts. It is just sad that it happens even here...

 

Well..duh... of course he is not on the race line in the run to the corner, since he is setting himself up for a pass. Usually the one you are trying to pass is on the race line. What is important is what happens when you have arrived at the corner and even more important, where you are in relation to the apex of that corner. And in that case, it is clearly Massa who was clean down the inside of DC.

Well, that is simply not true.

In racing, overtaking is an act of war, so yes you need to be agressive just like Massa showed when putting the car down the inside. If you would call that push/bully, fine, lets not get into semantics, but if you want to argue that this type of agression is an argument against the overtaker, you are seriously and utterly wrong.

Really? So from this point of view all overtaking manoeuvres should be done with BEFORE the cars reach the corner? Interesting, but it would mean that overtaking is going to be a little bit extra difficult since means outbraking is no longer allowed. For your information, in outbraking, the car to be overtaking is ALWAYS in front of the car that is going to do the overtaking in the run to the corner. The car that is trying to overtake has the challenge ro reach the apex on the inside line and if and when he does, the manoeuvre has succeeded. That is, if the car that was overtaken doesn't suddenly decide to steer into the apex as well, thinking he is the only one out there.

wrong again. This is getting pretty stupid.

There was really no gambling involved there. Just racecraft. If you knew, you could've actually enjoyed that move. Now you are just so busy bashing Massa, you are only trying to make an argument out of it and surely you are not enjoying that are you?

So first you accuse him of bully/push DC out off the way, and now you are accusing him of lacking balls? How does that work exactly and why are you better equipped to judge his performance than his own employer is?

And what would the team have been saying to Kimi for being stuck behund Barrichello for seventeen laps? Make no mistake about it, Kimi was MUCH faster than Rubens. Once he got ahead he was at least 2,5 seconds a lap faster.

I didn't know you were keeping crash statistics but good for you!

 

Yes well, the experts, including Coulthards manager and ex-F1 driver Martin Brundle, seem to disagree with you. I think I am going to go with that and the clear footage of the incident, saying it was DC's fault.

 

For real, what can you say? The car didnt seem as fast, it certainly wasnt as reliable, the drivers made plenty of mistakes, and perhaps an error in strategy. Chaulk it up to bad luck, bad prep, a mistake by mechanics, design, unsettled drivers, or performance anxiety, the result is still the same. It was a complete nightmare for Ferrari, and I hope its the one and only this season.

The Ferrari must be a very difficult car to drive from the looks of things. The McLaren appeared to have better handling than Ferrari based on how smooth both Lewis and Kov looked in the cars, compared to Kimi and Massa.
The Ferrari lack of reliability is what bothers me more than anything.
The only thing we can be overly critical of is Felipe. Made a stupid error at the first corner and his hotheadedness shined through for the rest of the race.

 

You can look from whatever angle you like, he was behind in a faster car that is the point he has the luxury of driving a Ferrari. Try looking at his 1st corner mistake no one touched him and he decided to take a detour explain that one then ask the judge to decide who was at fault..

 

Yes I will concur with that...

 

I knew the BS would be flying with the excuses trying to justify Massa's performance but this is simply ridiculous.

he flew off the course two corners into the race compeltely untouched...completely untouched.

He ran into DC in a pass attempt that was completely and unquestionably ill-concieved and horrendously executed. I don't need to be standing trackside, they showed that moronic pass attempt from in-car enough times for me to be stamping on my imaginary brake pedal. I knew he was going to run into DC even before it happened, it was that foreseeable.

Massa drove like an amateur yesterday. More importantly, he drove like someone who has no business in F1, let alone in a Ferrari. If you can't see the difference between his driving and Mimi's yesterday, then perhaps you should switch your focus to basketball chat sites because you don't know squat about F1.

Massa's drive was the most pathetic performance in a frontline car I have seen since the days of Patrese at Williams. He has no business driving a Ferrari and I question whether he belongs in F1 at this point.

 

+1000000

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

I find it laughable that ANYONE could point to that photo and say that Massa is not at fault. Laughable.