Massini Report (275 GTB/4 09413)

Rick

What axe do you think you have to grind? Or are you just having a bad day today?
Are you pissed that my report negatively impacted the final selling price?
My report CLEARLY DOES NOT STATE "the car did not leave the factory with its current engine" (your statement in post #56).
My report clearly DOES STATE that the engine was replaced by and at the factory (date 17 March 1967). Internal number 1876/64 and thereafter 1456/64. May I suggest to have a close look at the cover page of the factory build sheet, at the engine dyno test page, as well as on top right of the actual engine page. On all three of these factory pages there is a clear annotation/remark by the factory that the engine has been replaced. Naturally the Classiche Red Book says the engine is the one as it left the factory. They do not take into consideration that previously another engine (1876/64) had been installed.

Former owner Dr. William Vance Shappley was clearly informed by me in 2014 about the engine replacement.

Marcel Massini

 

Hey Rick:
Below are the factory build sheets for 09413.
Maybe your Italian girlfriend can translate it for you?

Cover page, bottom part:
"CAMBIATO MOTORE IN SEDE DI MODIFICA: 17/3/67 diventa N. 1456/64, per caratteristiche tecniche vedi nuovo foglio di montaggio e rel. prova."

This translates into:
"Engine replaced at headquarter and modified: 17 March 1967 it became number 1456/64, for technical characteristics see new build sheet and engine dyno test sheet."

On the engine assembly page (Foglio Montaggio Motore), top right, one can see that the first internal engine number 1876/64 was crossed out and below that was written 1456/64.

On the engine dyno test sheet (Relazione Sala Prova) one can see that the first internal engine number 1876/64 was crossed out and below that was written 1456/64.

And here is what I wrote in my "Massini Report":

"Chassis type 596.
Engine type 226, internal #1456/64 (replacement engine, originally with #1876/64, see top right of engine page and note on cover of factory build sheet).
Gearbox type 592/1223, internal #90/I."

Marcel Massini
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Just curious-- does that mean it was replaced during the testing process, but before delivery?

 

I have been around here long enough to know that if Marcel tells you that a rooster can pull a freight train, you might as well hitch him up and stand back.

 

I gotta remember that one.

Ever seen one of those old E.F. Hutton commercials?

 

They do blow up..often during dyno testing.
It reads like this one might have oiled the road.......

THE Rick Cole???


IMO anyone that lets a limited production Ferrari go by, based upon numero internal, is missing the boat.
They would drive the same.

 

It's not his money changing hands......

 

Easy there........on any given day, the hammer price IS the market.

They say.....

 

When you are talking about a 5 to 8 million dollar car it pays to be cautious. It is my understanding that engines did not receive a Numero Interno until they completed dyno testing.

 

I always assumed that the numero interno was literally stamped on an internal part.
Learned something. Thanks.

 

Based on upon Marcel Massini's explanation (below) which cites a verbatim quote (with accompanying translation) taken directly from detailed content specifically typewritten on 09413's Factory Assembly Sheets, I think the actual meaning of the words directly quoted pretty much put the lie to the theory these dual Numero Internos are somehow a result of some simple attempt to correct/"right" some mere typographical error:





Cover page, bottom part:
"CAMBIATO MOTORE IN SEDE DI MODIFICA: 17/3/67 diventa N. 1456/64, per caratteristiche tecniche vedi nuovo foglio di montaggio e rel. prova."

This translates into:
"Engine replaced at headquarter and modified: 17 March 1967 it became number 1456/64, for technical characteristics see new build sheet and engine dyno test sheet."

 

Why would an engine replaced at the factory prior to delivery affect the value?

What about other parts replaced by the factory during the testing process?

 

Don

If NOTHING had been mentioned on (no less than three pages!) of the factory build sheets nobody would know today (about the factory engine replacement) and therefore most probably today's value would not be affected. However, this is the market today and because values today are so high (they didn't plan that back in 1967!) it DOES or CAN matter. It is also called due diligence or doing the homework and that's exactly what savvy buyers do now (protecting your investment). Happens not only in the Ferrari classic car world but also in other markets (art!). For most serious buyers it is all important, for others a bit less.
Other parts? The engine clearly is the heart of it all. So this is key. Everything else is a bit less significant.

Marcel Massini

 

It shouldn't necessarily have a deleterious effect on value of and in itself. However, in the end, rightly or wrongly buyers have their own individual criteria for what matters.

 

Yes, absolutely.
Just FYI 10545 has internal engine number 1602. See photo. And that car is bullet proof.
(before anyone asks: The 213 visible above the internal engine block number 1602 is the 275 engine type, and the 100148 below the internal engine block number is the part number for the block. Most 275 GTB/4's had this stamping 213/100148 and in between the actual internal engine block number).

Early 275 GTB/4s had engine blocks 213/100317 (part number). See build sheets and spare parts catalog for the 275 GTB/4. This was the part number for the late, i.e. torque tube, two-mount two-cam 275 block and then the early four-cam 275 motor. 226/100474 was the part number for later four-cam engine. Part number 213/100148 is what is shown in the 275 GTB/GTS spare parts catalogue and is the part number for a four-mount two-cam 275 block.

Early 275 GTB/4s = 213/100317.
275 GTB 2-cam four-mount and 275 GTB/4 = 213/100148.
Late 275 GTB/4s = 226/100474.

Marcel Massini
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Again, this is the market today. It is the market that decides.

Marcel Massini

 

Disinformation: numero interno was stamped at the foundry so the engines could be followed during manufacturing process. Serial number was added when installed into a car. This also explain interno is always on rough surface. In case of 275-engines one can clearly see that the block was sand blasted after stamping.