massive heist of John Andrews' Ferraris

This story just keeps getting more and more bizarre as this thread goes on.

Somewhere in all the gaps and inconsitencies of the interview there is much more going on. So there was an ongoing dispute with the city over the property and things kept disappearing.

Sounds to me like he didn't live there, was presumed dead according to at least one story, and the place was slowly cleaned out and then burned. It also doesn't sound like any of these cars were complete and operational. Or at least not many of them.

Even without the titles it still seems pretty easy to me to trace the paper back.

 

a very simplistic but erroneous view... assumes one runs out and titles each car they buy in their own name... it is not unusual for collectors / traders to hold the original title / documents in open form from the seller until the car is sold or made road ready with proper registration...dealers / wholesalers routinely trade used car trade ins in open original seller's document form, a car can pass through several hands before it is ever titled... a record search becomes impossible should something happen to original documents and the original seller cannot be located or is deceased

 

The less that you secure your paperwork via titling, registration, and paying taxes... the more that you open yourself up to losing what was "yours" through one avenue or another (e.g. theft or government confiscation).

Or put another way, if you don't secure the proper paperwork, the government may disagree with what you consider to be "yours."

In this case, though, it appears that the cars were legally sold about the time that Andrews retired, and that he had a spell where he preferred to let someone believe that he had passed away.

Funny, but all of the buyers of those cars...unrelated to each other...appear to have the correct paperwork and taxes paid, etc.

 

I think that it is safe to say that he didn't have insurance on his "millions" of Dollars worth of cars, didn't have titles, didn't have registration, wasn't paying any property taxes, wasn't buying parts for them, didn't see them go missing, etc.

 

This story would be perfect fodder for Jesse Ventura's "Conspiracy Theory" show.

 

of course the documents would appear correct... in the video he says his safe was broken into and the car documents removed allowing for subsequent thefts and cars sold with proper documentation... as long as he can verify having possession of the cars in question any document showing a sale would either contain his forged signiture or be absent of his signiture making any sale bogus and a result of theft... it would be not easy but it could be shown the cars were stolen and not sold by him... many items of value do not have titles or documentation for ownership are stolen and recovered successfully... these car would not be any different

his eccentricity led to the current situation and is affecting his credibility with law enforcement, but has no bearing on the theft of his property

 

Quite honestly there wasn't enough parts left in the engine bay to determine if it was
a 3 or six carb car. I was duly impressed by a K-mart oil filter though!
That is the garage where I looked at the car. I will try to post the pictures from my phone over the weekend.

 

Well, if his bank accounts show deposits from back in 1994 when the current owners bought them...and if those deposits are anywhere close to what the new owners claim, then it will be hard for him to debate a "forged" signature or not.

Likewise, if he cancelled his car insurance on each one with timeframes corresponding to the years in which the new owners claim to have legally bought the cars, it will be hard for him to claim that the cars were "stolen."

Or if the current owners show *years* or even decade(s) of paying taxes and insurance while maintaining title and registration, it will be a hard road to claim that the cars were ever "stolen."

If he never had insurance on his cars and never titled them, then he was playing with fire. People do get burned on occasion when playing with fire.

On the other hand, if he has current insurance on the cars then he may not have a problem at all.

...or if he paid his registration fees to the state. No problem.

But if he was dodging taxes by not paying registration fees, then again, he's going to have problems. Tax-dodging carries risks of property loss/confiscation/theft.




You can't just claim to own things.

 

there is no statue of limitations on theft... one only needs to prove the theft for the return of stolen property, regardless of what has transpired while the property was in someone else's custody

it is not required that a car be titled / registered or insured... registration and insurance apply only if the car is used on public roads... otherwise a car is treated as any personal property

 

Wow! You just glossed over everything that I wrote, and made a reply that was a non sequitur.

I go to great lengths to dumb down what I post, too. I'll try harder!

If he got paid for the cars, he will have a hard time claiming that they were stolen. This means that any serious police investigation will subpoena his bank records.

If he cancelled his insurance without filing claims on the cars, he will have a hard time claiming that they were stolen. This means that any serious police investigation will subpoena his insurance records.

If he stopped registering his vehicles with his state+city, he will have a hard time claiming that they were stolen. This means that any serious police investigation will subpoena his tax+registration records.

And likewise, if he didn't pay registration+taxes and didn't have insurance, he will have a hard time claiming that they were stolen.



Keep in mind that the current owners of those cars have the correct titles, bills of sale, insurance, and current tax registrations.


So on the one hand you have someone with nothing, and on the other hand, owners with no relation to each other who all have the proper paperwork.



Now, take a deep breath (you'll need it!). Notice that nothing above mentions the "statute of limitations" that you ridiculously interjected above. Stop it.

 

Andrews himself says: "I never got the file folder with the titles and the pink slips for maybe 30 cars"


www.youtube.com/watch?feature=&v=7GL_4ihPhlQ#t=998s

And the police treat him like a homeless-guy nuisance.



Unless Andrews has *any* relevant paper trail such as an insurance agent who can come up with policy numbers, letters from the State asking for new registration payments, or other 3rd party verification of his ownership (since he apparently has an excuse for not having any relevant records himself whatsoever), then he is pretty much an outsider claiming that the cars other people legally own are his.

Hassling other owners is not nice.

 

There is no more reason to believe his story than to think he is lying. In fact it is far more likely that he is lying (or simply mentally deteriorating).

Occam's Razor should always take priority.

My *theory* would be he is mentally deteriorating and legally sold the cars and/or gave them away. He may or may not have realized what he was doing at the time because of his mental state.

Now his memory is even worse and he has created an alternate reality (very common)

I could be very wrong but if you are going to start a thread like this you are going to get theories...

 

Can't help but think the same....

 

No, his eyes don't say anything. His complete lack of a paper trail, however...that's another matter.

He didn't pay insurance?!
He didn't pay registration fees?!
He never got the titles?!
No receipts for parts purchased over time for "his" cars?!

The current owners of those vehicles have all of that proper paperwork?!


Come on...

 

In all honesty his eyes say "Im mentally imbalanced" to me

 

Ya think?
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Ouch.


Hermit-Hoarder Syndrome.

 

Sorry but in the case of a million dollar car, that's bull****. The buyer would not bring a bag full of cash....a canceled check at a min would be evidence enough of payment. Title or no title, some form of payment will prove if he sold or not.

 

No you can't, at least not in Oregon. In Oregon, the seller has to sign the title. How do you "legally use them for sale transactions" without the seller signing the title?

I'd be surprised if it was any different in California.

That said, it doesn't seem wise to keep the titles in the same place as the cars.