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Discussion in 'F1' started by CRG125, Aug 12, 2014.
Actually they might as well call it the F1 (lewis hamilton) section.
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Well said, it's ridiculous. back n forth with the same old nausea.
No disrespect but my thoughts are the same as F1 drivers, including team mates of Senna and Schumi. I believe F1 drivers, as their thoughts has more weight than internet drivers. I echo Berger, Barrichello and others. If they say Senna was one of the greatest, i believe them. If they say Schumi was great and help built a team, i believe them. Multiple old or retired F1 drivers said Hamilton is on the same level as any great and he is a cleanest driver as any. Guest what, i believe them. So when you say my ignorance of F1 history is so overwhelming, you are saying the same about those drivers.
You say Hamilton didn't wipe the floor with Alonso in his rookie year. If you you are shocked by that, i would say that's interesting. Fact is he beat Alonso his rookie year, a 2 time champion in his prime, no other driver has done this. Believe what you want, but i side with real F1 drivers, not internet drivers, again no disrespect.
And what are you exactly, if not an internet driver yourself?
Max Verstappen thread here, Please...
Correct, that's why my advice is listen to F1 drivers.
Again, your ignorance knows no bounds.
Fact 1: F1 Drivers very rarely criticize the achievements of their peers. In fact, the only example I can readily recall is Stewart’s criticism of Senna’s crash record especially at the Adelaide GP in 1990 after the infamous Suzaka crash. Oh, Jacques Villenerve is prone to diminish the achievements of his peers but who really listens to that eccentric. So to use the comments of drivers, none of whom say he’s the best-only that he deserves to be In the pantheon due to his statistical achievements - to vindicate your arguments is somewhat flimsy.
Fact 2: If Lewis had real courage, he would Invite Max to the Mercedes team to go head to head. If one was fair and didn’t discriminate, wouldn’t you invite your competitors to battle with you on a level playing field. I’m sure Lewis certainly blocked Dan Ricciardo going to Mercedes, who would’ve given him a real fright.
In my mind, Max would wipe the floor against Lewis as a pole merchant, much in the same way Senma kicked Prost’s arse in 88 and 89 and would mostly likely beat him to the championship as well.
Lewis has the stats.
Going head to head with Max in the same car would finally add validity to the numbers.
Or is he afraid that we would finally see that the emperor is naked when the tide goes out?
LOL MrGrigio, Ferrari invented the #2 driver (or at least perfected it) in Rubens Barrichello. Schumacher never ever wanted to invite a title rival to his team to make his life more difficult LOL
There is a difference between the wishes of the public to see the 2 best drivers going head to head in the same car, and the interest of the dominating team to preserve its investment and ensure the mission is accomplished.
You don't introduce a fox in a hen pen, unless you want carnage. (Senna/Prost, Piquet/Mansell).
I love your stuff! LOL I need to change my entire way of thinking. Lewis can be the champion of statistics...but never a sports god. So.... all this time the Miami Dolphins have been the worlds greatest NFL football champions if you just ignore statistics (numbers / reality). Good to know! On Monday I'll let my boss know that I'm now the companies top sales learder (if he just ignores statistics) I also learned by applying your logic that my million dollar house is not worth a million dollars because I did not develop it myself. I'll let my banker know on Monday to lower my monthly mortgage payments. Thanks! Unless your logic only apply to Lewis Hamilton and know one else?
LOL, this is gonna be too easy for me if you don't step up your game.
Fact 3. Criticizing your rivals, and saying that a driver is one of the greatest of all time, is 2 different things. Many drivers say good things about other drivers. But RARELY does a driver say that they are one of the greatest of all time. And many have said that about Hamilton.
Hamilton does not need to prove anything else. He beat 2 champion team mates. Schumacher 0. Senna 1. Why does he have to beat Verstappen? Riccardo already beat Verstappen. Why do you keep moving the goal post? I never said Lewis is the best, my stance is he will go down as one of the all time F1 greats, along side the obvious names. Schumacher never invited Hakkennin, Alonso, or Montoya to be his team mate. Do you discredit him for that?
As you know, i choose to believe F1 drivers opinions. You mentioned Alonso. Here is a link with Alonso placing Hamilton above himself, naming Hamilton his top 5 of all time. The kicker is people are saying all of this when his career is not over.
You are banging your head on a brick wall mate ...it's not worth the band width responding to nonsense, besides it's Max's thread this
Right. You cannot change people's opinion, and if they don't like a driver, they would invent absolutely anything to discrefit him.
It's rather funny to watch.
Interesting observation, does it apply to you as well?
Of course it does !!
But I don't need to invent stuff to explain my feelings. I didn't invent Senna and Schumacher crashing into other cars on purpose
I was thinking about your bias against anything that is not British in F1, not those drivers.
We do not know that this has NOT happened.....
Nationality has no influence on my opinion.
I liked Lauda, Piquet, Andretti, Rosberg, Hakkinen, and my favourite driver was Prost. None of them British.
I follow Ricciardo, Albon and Stroll, still not British.
The best possible thing to do is to put KTU on ignore...It's like playing chess with a pigeon.
Please don’t compare football stats to F1 stats. In F1, you have a machine interface, This is why comparing drivers is a slippery slope, esp when you purely use statistics.
If stats mattered, Gilles Villenerve, Ronnie Peterson, Jochen Rindtt and Stirling Moss would never rank highly in the usual drivers ranking lists that publications like to trot out every few years.
You know what marks a champion - a true great? it’s how they beat the opposition and/or change the game. Prost is highly rated as he beat highly competitive teammates in equal cars, except for Senna but he also won the 1986 title in an inferior car against the FW11. Moss and Clark won in every category, Fangio was a old man that beat much younger drivers, often in equal cars and won the 57 Nurburgring the way he did, Stewart for bringing clinical cerebral techniques to the art of driving - as well as fighting a safety campaign against staunch opposition, Lauda, for cheating death in his first comeback and winning a third title in his second comeback using brain over brawn, Senna, for being so damn fast - rarely is the fastest driver the best driver - and charismatic and beating Prost in a McLaren and winning Estroil 85 and Donington 93 , Schumacher for bringing supreme athleticism, brain and attention to detail - he, with Todt, built up Ferrari to be the winning machine that it was and winning Spain 96 the way he did.
How did Lewis change the game? Where is that impossible victory or championship?
If you or Ktu actually read my posts, I actually said that Lewis debut was the greatest in history and his 2 victories in 2009 what started as a poor car as being particularly remarkable but with each passing year, it’s seems more like a fluke or a result of Ron’s support as there has been no bookend to that beginning.
Lewis never built up Mercedes, never had a say in how it was managed like Schumacher did other than have a say in who his team mate is.
Lewis never that that impossible victory or fight back - I still remember that Canadian wet race that Button won in 2011 - rather than any of Lewis’s victories.
Vettel won 4 titles but we won’t remember him as true great anymore as he was only as good as the car.
Remember also I started as a huge fan of Lewis.I cheered each time he beat Alonso. Now, I just see him as a duplicitous hypocrite. I felt cheated for being a fan for so long. I hate Lewis for doing that!
As old as the world itself:
In latin: "Nullum est periculum mercedem non" (= no risk, no reward)
Pierre Corneille, "Le Cid", 1636, Act II, Scène 2.
The Count: "Trop peu d'honneur pour moi suivrait cette victoire,
À vaincre sans péril on triomphe sans gloire"
(= there would be too few honor from such a victory, vanquishing against no odds is a gloryless triumph")
Uh, your wrong, Riccardo beat Vettel who was 4 time world Champion is his rookie year. Where is Riccardo today?
Interesting discussion, especially since Max is the first driver to admit that there is only winning or losing, and nothing in between. All drivers are in it to win it & argueing that a WDC won against an equally good teammate is better than a WDC (period) is the true mark of an armchair racing driver
The true question is whether there will ever be an extra addition to the list of 'great' drivers, because of the way the sport is moving forward. If (and only if) Max has won his first V6 hybrid era title, will that compare to a title won by Senna? Or against 6 titles won by Hamilton? We can dish out all the strawman arguments, rely on decennia of being a fan and whatnot but it all comes down to personal preference. Nothing more, nothing less.
Also, I do not get the obsession with gettin Max and Lewis in the same team, I do not think that will bring the ultimate showdown super races most people think they will. It is simply not the way F1 works anymore. There is only 1 WDC and 1 WCC title to win in a season and you do not need 2 drivers capable of winning the WDC to do that. It would be way more interesting if Red Bull had a competitive car and they could battle it out properly. Heck, even give them both a good #2 teammate, might even make the pit-stop battles interesting again!
It looks like some people would like F1 to become a specs series then.
He drove two seasons for Torro Rosso before that, so it wasn't his first year.