MazdaSpeed3

Just when I was certain that a 2009 VW GTi would be my next daily driver, I test drove a MazdaSpeed3. While the GTi interior is much nicer, the MazdaSpeed with its 263hp and 280lb/ft is a hoot to drive...and it's leather interior is still much better that that in the EVO and STi ...decisions-decisions...?

 

Does the Mazdaspeed compare with an EVO pricewise? I would not have thought so...or maybe it does not matter.

For my money, out of the cars you mention, it would be the EVO. I dont like FWD "performance" cars. Just my $.02.

 

The Mazdaspeed 3 on paper looks like a great car (haven't driven it yet) but I'm worry of Mazda's interior quality. I owned an RX-8 and while the car was a blast to drive, the interior was cheap and non durable. The shift knob top was decoloring, the A/C control botton broke, the cloth seats wore dramatically. All in 2 years while I only put 14k miles on the car before I sold it at $2k below blue book. Mazdas are lots of fun but they lack in interior quality and for some models the resale value sucks.

I would not go for a Mazdaspeed over a GTI. If the GTI's power is a concern why not have the ECU reprogrammed. A local shop argues they can get up to 50hp with the reprogramming. May be that number is overstated but the reprogramming will for sure give you more power to play with.

 

A Mazdaspeed3 is ~$10k less than an EVO GSR . I drove the EVO and I actually like the VW GTi and Mazdaspeed3 MUCH better...the EVO interior is just too cheap for my taste...I have never been a fan of FWD cars either...but, to get the gas mileage I want in my next daily driver AND still have some fun-factor left in the car, it appears FWD is the only way to go...

 

The Mazdaspeed3 "Touring" package comes with leather. Nav, Sirius and more and is actually surprising nice for a mid $20k sport compact/hatch...http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/selectConfigTrim.action?hiddenVehicleCode=MS3&modelCode=MS3+RSGT+P++&vehicleCode=MS3&buttonAction=continue&modelYear=2008&cab=SGT&transmission=6-Spd+Manual&x=122&y=10

 

I know this sounds nuts but before you buy a Mazda 3 speed..

Drive the VW GTI again..

Both cool rides

I dig the DSG tranny of the GTI so it would be a deciding factor for me..(I know most guys like the clutch pedal etc..but DSG is world class. )

 

Thats what I thought. For the high 20s/low 30s I would go CTS-V.

 

I have actually looked at the CTS-V and did not like it at all...it's UGLY and comes with a slushbox only...and it's mid to high $40k by the time you get it loaded up with options...I can get the GTi or Mazdaspeed3 loaded for mid $20k...plus, the Caddy can't touch the gas mileage of either the GTi or Mazdaspeed3...

 

I did drive the VW R32 with DCG...while it was OK, the GTi with its 6 speed stick drove/felt better IMHO...plus, after 45k miles with my M5 SMG, I want to go back to an antiquated three pedal system...I'm tired of paddle shifting...I want my clutch pedal back...

 

All CTS-V's are not automatics. Gas mileage wise though, yes would not say its best as your next daily driver.

 

But, a manual transmission option is only available on their basic car...not the Direct Injection model...

 

The CTS V model ONLY came with six speed manuals.

The upcoming 2009 CTS V with 550 hp is going to be available with both manual 6 speeds and for the first time ever a 6 speed automatic..

If your going for a manual transmission in a NEW car in the twenties and want some B@lls..

The mazda 3 speed is a great choice. I bet there are discounts available too.

Good luck shopping.

 

mazdaspeed 3 is a nice car, especially if you do a full 3" turboback exhaust. The one problem with the car is the small exhaust housing on the turbocharger... looking at Dyno graphs the power just plummets. http://www.dragtimes.com/images_dyno/11283-2007-Mazda-3-Dyno.jpg I still really like the car, I also think it has potential to easily put down some great power. Also the platform I was told is the same as the Mazdaspeed 6 which is AWD... so that could be interesting as well. The top mount intercooler is also a concern of mine, to much heat on top of the motor, Subaru's have this same problem but a nice front mount is a perfect solution. Oh but if you are deciding between an EVO STI and a Mazdaspeed 3... I'd go with an older Evo. Aftermarket is amazing for them and they sound better than anything with simple cams and a tune. I love STI's as well, especially with a full turboback exhaust. I'd go for one of those before the Mazda if I had to choose.

Chris

 

I looked at the Mazdaspeed3 again yesterday and the interior is still a problem for me... the GTi still leads the pack for my next daily driver...at least for now...

 

I hope you don't like working on your own car, because if you do... that GTI is a nightmare.

 

I would love to know what you are basing this on... surely it isn't first hand experience.

I would consider myself someone who knows very little about being in a shop. This honest statement aside, I have done 4 suspension swaps on my car, installed a sway bar, removed and installed all of the bumpers/ side skirts, practically had my entire interior apart to install cupholders and a LOC behind my radio, installed a boost gauge which required disassembling the intake and engine cover and installed a rear fog housing and wired the proper wiring in the Highline controller.

Next up is Exhaust, FMIC, Intake, DV and PCV install. All fairly easy to perform.

There are VERY detailed write-ups on everything involving the MKV GTI as well as previous generations. I have only had to purchase a few select odd-ball tools but for the most part a full metric set has been sufficient.

 

Well it is first hand experience. I work in a shop and have dealt with VW's first hand. I haven't done so much with the new GTI, but if its anything like any other VW (which I'm sure it is) than its a nightmare. VW's are nothing but headaches when it comes to simple things such as plugs and wires. You may not have many problems with your VW, and you may never have any problems. But with the amount of VW's that I see come into the shop I work at, and the stupid designs that VW thinks up, I can't believe that people still like the newer ones as much as they do. Its great to hear the plans you have for the car, and don't get me wrong, I think they look awesome, but I do not like the design aspects. Also why have you had to do 4 suspension swaps on your car thus far? I am just speaking from personal experience, if he ends up buying a VW, than I wish him the best of luck, but I'm just throwing what I've seen out on the table. Also you seem to be fairly mechanically inclined as opposed to many people. I am not alone in my thinking, I have multiple master mechanics in my shop who think the same. I'm also a Nissan person so I may be looking at things from a tainted point of view.

Chris

 

I think we are talking about "working on VW's" in two separate ways. I am talking about modifying/ installing bolt ons. You are thinking more along the lines of warranty. To that extent, the MKV does have it's share of gremlins, but for the most part the kinks have been worked out and it has proven to be FAR more reliable then my MKIV, which caused me to leave the VW scene for 11 months and bore myself with an Acura TSX 6MT.

Suspensions..
1. Vogtland 50mm on stock shocks - Too bouncy
2. B&G Coilovers - one shock was not adjusting properly - sent away for warranty
3. H&R Coilovers - Just a temporary setup. Didn't like not being able to dial in the dampening.
4. B&G coilovers (again) - Still too harsh and a bit too low.
5. H&R springs with koni sports (adjustable) - a nice compromise between height, ride, handling. So far I am happy.

The first and the fifth swap were the most labor intensive because they involved pulling the front axle bolts (a one-time use stretch bolt) and pulling the entire hub.

If by mechanically inclined, you mean being able to follow diagrams and read instructions... then yes, I guess I am mechanically inclined.

 

I am talking about reliability and warranty issues. Anyone can install boltons as you have said. Also you've stated the MKV has been much more reliable than your MKIV... Well that doesn't say much seeing as how the MKIV doesn't seem to be very reliable. The other cars he's contemplating purchasing are both more reliable and many cars on the market are more reliable than the MKIV and MKV. Also I'd take the Acura TSX 6MT over an MKV anyday. Honda > VW

If I were to purchase a German car, it would be a BMW or an older VW GTI. An MK2 or an E30 BMW.

 

That is your personal preference.

I personally grew to hate the TSX. The power was up way to high and really isn't practical where you need it most in traffic and around town. The laughable "vtec" kicked in at 5800rpms. The after market support was next to nothing or dominated by 2 companies and to chip you have to send your entire ECU out to Hondata vs. going to a local APR, GIAC, unitronic etc. dealer to get the GTI flashed.

The TSX had major understeer issues, but I read that a stiffer rear sway bar and better tires helped to quash that. Also, if you are unfortunate enough to own an automatic TSX you never see the full powerband. All of this said, the 11 months and 20,000 miles that I owned the car. I had absolutely zero issues.

These are my opinions based on personal ownership experience and obviously plenty of seat time as they are both daily drivers. Pound for pound, the only thing I miss about the TSX was the touch screen navi and bluetooth.


Anyway.. back to the topic at hand. With regard to the mazda being "more reliable," I am not sure that can ever be objectively settled. Although, the MS3 isn't without flaw, I guess you never heard of the motor mount issues with the Mazdaspeed 3. Seems pretty reliable for a car's engine to just fall out.

If you can't tell by my e-ntonation, I am merely just playing back at your fairly bold statements. I don't really think you are doing any justice by subjectively making assumptions based on "personal experience" when you admit to having a bias towards Japanese cars. My fiance owns a MKV Jetta that just crushed 80k miles (she is in sales) and I am rapidly approaching 20k miles in just under 7 months. We both are in the car more often then we like and rely on it with potentially great detriment. So far neither car has had an issue and as a frequenter to various VW forums, the issues tend to be with improperly modified cars and the random bad apple here or there. My guess is that if you track the Mazdaspeed forums, the same consistency will hold true.
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Well I was stating that I would take the TSX over a VW, but at the same time I would take most any car over a VW. I like the TSX for the looks but hate the fact that Honda feels the need to make the motors slow down in the lower RPMs.

Back onto the MS3, yes they have there problems and they also had faulty turbo seals, but things like this were solved. This is all fairly minor in my opinion due to the fact Mazda corrected this and that it had nothing which was an internal engine problem. The bad turbo seals are more of a concern to me personally due to the fact getting to the turbo than rebuilding it is a pain if you don't do it under warranty.

Compared to the other cars he has listed, the Evo and STI I would not choose an MS3, but compared to a VW vs an MS3, I would choose the MS3. They are faster, I love the interior, they had problems but they were solved as far as I've heard, and they will hold there value better due to the limited production Mazda has for the speed series.

As I stated I am a Nissan person and love Nissan's but I have an 04 Spec V which is a great car to do simple modifications on, but anything major and the car immediately starts having problems.

I'm all over the place right now, its late and my accounting HW has finally gotten to me.

 

Atleast we can agree on something, a strong loathing for long hours of school work. Business orgs. law is currently the "bane of my existence."

I really don't think you can go wrong between a MS3 and the GTI. If you read the OP's other posts about eventually teaching/handing this car onto his daughter. I don't think a STI/ Evo is the proper option. To me, the Mazda's tend to fly under the radar a bit more then the GTI because of the supposed "boy racer" looks. I though the GTI had ample power and my modifications will put me will above the MS3 range.

Since we were on the topic of Honda. Parkerfe. Have you driven the Civic SI?

 

I actually haven't driven the new civic SI, I've heard mixed reviews. It feels like I've driven every other Honda but the Civic SI. I'm sure one of these days it will come in and I'll test drive it. The last Honda I remember driving was an S2000, and that was an awesome car to drive.

A little off topic but as I said I'm a Nissan person and recently came upon a great price for a 240sx. 1000 dollars with a running motor. I was going to buy it and turn it into a project car, but I just dont have time or money to spend on a car now. Its very frustrating because I'm dying to finally dig into a project, but I don't have the time with school work and an upcoming knee surgery. Also I don't want it to drain my money seeing as how my paycheck is lousy as it is during school. I cannot wait until I start making some actual money and have some real time to work on things.


Chris

 

I have driven the Mugen Civic Si and it was OK, but you had to rev it way to high to get any power at all...plus, while it's interior was nicer than the MS3, it is still el cheapo compared to the GTi...in fact, the GTi interior is as good as or maybe a little nicer than my current $95k M5...the only interior with a cheaper feel than the MS3 was that in the EVO GSR...the soon to be released EVO MR is supposed to be much nicer though?