have the mags done any testing on the 540 yet ?
Going back to my earlier comments I was told no 540C in U.S. At least not right now. Impossible to order, but they had quite a few 570 orders.
Just saw the cars in Shanghai. My thoughts on the 570S: 1. The Blade Grey (?) 570S was gorgeous. It's a very nice silver with warmth under the lights. I predict a lot will get this color. It really suits the car. 2. The palladium trim is very nice and I see no need for all the exterior CF on this car unless you just really love it that much. 3. Interior was beige. Suits the exterior, but I'm not really a tan interior person. Design looked good. It actually looked a bit tighter inside than P11, though I don't think it actually is. Might have to do with the color combo and the door speakers that kind of stick out. Don't recall seeing CF trim inside and didn't really mind. 4. Digital dash was my only complaint. Not the functions itself or the graphics, but that it seemed like a flat panel with 3 noticeably separate displays. Didn't really blend well and felt like someone just put a rectangular display in the dash area. Then again, this is an autoshow with tons of lights everywhere, so that might have made the contrast more noticeable. 5. Door storage areas are neat and nice. Storage behind the seats seems a little bigger than P11, but not massively so. Might even be the same. Looked at one after the other and didn't notice much difference. Didn't see the trunk space. He said he tried to open it and it wouldn't. These are pre-production cars and based on the glimpse I caught of it in a youtube video, it might actually not even have trim in the trunk, hence why you it's not for show yet. 6. Ingress/egress issues have been resolved. My friend got to sit in the car since he got a bit ahead of me while I was talking to the rep, but he was politely asked to get out and I was not allowed in. From what others have said, they don't seem to be letting people in the cars just yet, though another friend of mine was at the premier and was allowed to get in it at the end of the event after most everyone else had left. Since these are a bit out of my friend's price range and likes cars, he made sure to sit in everything he could And being that he had no experience prior or technique for entry into P11, I asked him about the ease of entry on the 570S vs 675LT. The sill is massively lower in appearance as it slopes down and he confirmed that it was in fact a lot easier to get in the 570S, though neither was very hard since he's young and quite short. 7. Window defrosted lines on the rear glass were orange IIRC. My thoughts on 540C: 1. The car was red, not sure if it was a new one or not. Some pictures cast it kind of orange, but it's definitely all red and I didn't get any hint or orange that I recall. I don't really like the color on the car. 2. Didn't like the wheel design. Lack of CCB doesn't matter in terms of performance, but like before, it means the rotors don't fill up the wheels as well. 3. The diffusers are slightly different, though not massively. The 540C seems to be a bit less of a lip and the rear has less fins, though I only noticed because someone mentioned it. 4. Side intake/door part was palladium trim and looked great. As I said above, no need for CF. 5. The biggest issue was the plastic used in place of the CF on the diffusers and side skirts. The rear isn't so noticeable since it's so low, but the matte plastic on the 540C looked really cheap on the side skirt and front. Similar to the stuff you find on the back of the Huracan. That said, you could easily fix this with a wrap. You could just wrap these pieces glossy grey or black and it would look a thousand times better. This was my only issue with the 540C. 6. It didn't have the cameras, so I'm not sure if parking/telemetry is an option or just not available. Final thoughts: Car is awesome. Looks fantastic, a lot of improve design aspects, and the price will be quite appealing. China prices were 2.5M RMB and 2.3M RMB. That's about $400K and $370K. Choice of 540C or 570S will depends on what the standard equipment is. I could live with wrapping the matte plastic trim, but if you have to pay a lot for other standard features, then it might not make sense. Hard to say without seeing the real order sheets and option prices. Needless to say, I think this car will sell really well. As with just about every McLaren, the car looks massively better in person. It looked stubby in the front in the pictures, but in real life it's not. This is most likely do to the fact that in real life, nothing is static. The light, the reflections, and your perspective are constantly changing and almost never what a picture conveys. The car has huge presence and looks fantastic from 6 feet tall McLaren has by far the best paint in the industry IMO, and again, it shows. If you have any questions, let me know. I spent a decent amount of time looking them over and I'd be happy to answer any that I can.
The Murcielago is worth less because they made a lot more of them and had less models. Also, not all Diablos are worth more. The Diablo existed for many years and in many forms. Some are worth much more than others. It's also older, so naturally it had more time to find its way into the hands of collectors. The 12C performance will carry it quite a bit. The reason it's hard to sell an F430 or 360 is because they aren't old enough to be cool/classic and few people can stomach having their doors blown off by everyday sport cars. Those Ferraris are now officially all show and no go. Less performance than a Cayman and asking massively more. The 12C on the other hand is still competitive with the 488, which isn't even on sale yet. 12C is not the best looking or best sounding car, but the performance is massive and a bargain compared to other exotics in the price range. The market does in fact realize this. It's why in the last 2.5 years, 2012 12C coupes have only lost about $25K in value. They are slowly finding their floor and I assure you the floor is substantially above an F430 for some time to come. Also, I know you think it is, but the 570S is nowhere near the price of a good 12C coupe. No one quotes fully loaded prices. $30K on a good day, and $50K if you want it loaded. Like Ferrari and Porsche, McLaren options aren't cheap. That's not saying you can't order a 570S with zero options, but no one will and no one will stock one either. Also, the Spider comment is even more off base because there is no 570S Spider. Doesn't matter if the 570S is better value than a 12C Spider because there isn't one. 570S deliveries won't reach many people for probably 6 months still, then assume 8-12 months more for Spider to debut. You're looking at 1.5-2 years before you'd even get a 570S Spider, which again would carry a massive premium to the 12C Spider anyway.
No one has driven either yet. All the cars going around the world right now are pre-production cars. Thet aren't really even letting people sit in them yet. Will probably be a while before real tests happen. Wouldn't be surprised if it's still 3+ months before anyone tests one.
You may be right on 570 prices. But at the Ny show the Mclaren rep from woking told me the only options are going to be stereo amd wheels, otherwise the cars come loaded. Maybe thats a sales strategy, the anti porche/ferrari or maybe now they have a lot of orders thye will revise that strategy and decontent to make profit on options. One of the things I really like about Mclaren is thye are not ferrari. No delaer BS, no games, the cars from a drivers perspective are more "authentic". The 570 looks like maca is taking amortised 12c/650 tooling and offering a much nicer looking car for way less $$$. If its slower than a 12c the differences are academic. No one has driven one, but personaly I did not like the feel of hydraulic suspension in a 12c. If the 570's has a slightly harder ride but is more "connected" feeling to me that will be an improvement. So comapred to the 12c the decontenting I see slighlty less perofrmance which is academic, different suspension which maye be an improvement to some. On the upside nicer looking, and now 5 odd years in, probbaly better resolved overall, 100k less. I agree with you about the shape, you a hve to see it to really see all the detail, the p1 was the same in this regard..
The performance is always slight and largely academic, but people always seem to care. Couldn't be the case with options because the configurator online has all kinds. No CF is standard inside or out, several lightweight wheels and finishes, sports exhaust, premium paints, heated seats, upgraded stereo, and of course I'm sure all the usual possibilities like stitching color, alcantara, seat belts, etc. They of course come in packages if you want a bunch of it. I think many cars will have $20K+ worth of options.
The only examples of "performance" not being paramount are the Gt3, specicicaly the 997 version. Its wasnt the "fastetst" porche or even the fatstest car in its class, just the most desireable. Methinks the exoticness of the 570 will make it very desireable and the performance defict more than covered by the 100k price deficit. I dotn see peopel stretching tot he 650 for a few 10ths of a sec. When the 650 replacement come out next year, that will probbaly be awhole new ballgame and worth the rpemium.
I inquired with the Canadian McLaren dealer in my area as both the 570S and 540C pose intriguing prospects. They have estimated Canadian prices and dates for both cars. The 540C is expected a few months after the 570S.
Is your options information from the Shanghai show? I wonder if the equipment level of base cars for China and US markets are different. China's prices are 2x that of N. American prices due to additional government taxes so their buyers will likely not want to pay for a fully-loaded base car, especially at the lower end of the premium market. Premium cars represent more of a status symbol to Asian buyers so people will usually buy the brand, not the options or performance if they have a tight budget. In simpler terms, they care about the brand and the car, not about CF details or "upgraded hi-fi". My understanding of Ferrari dealers is that base-trim is a relative concept and each country can have a different set of features included in the base-trim equipment of its cars. What is an option for one country may be base equipment in another. MAC dealers may (have to) employ the same concept, for marketing and competitive pricing sense.
No, it's from the online configurator that launched back around the NYC show and the dealer sales manual that details a lot of the options and option difference between the cars. The online configurator shows all sorts of CF options as well as packages (Lux Package, Interior Package, Exterior Package, etc.) If the cars were loaded, there wouldn't be packages. It's highly unlikely the cars in the US are fully loaded at $185K while ROW has barebones for the same price.
Go look at the online configurator; I think you will find LOTS of options and I am confident they will be pricey. https://configure.mclaren.com/570s My 12C had something like $50K in options I think and I expect a typical 570 will have at least $20K in options, putting it over $200K and you can forget about a discount at least for the next year. I can't imagine that a $205K 570S is going to push down a $160K 12C by very much in the next 12 months. As used 570S come on line, perhaps.
Looked at the configurator. You can go large on wheels and CF, maybe paint. There are a few interior options. Skip the wheels and Cf and I dont see a car costing too much more than the 185, a few options it may well still be under 200k. To me the 570 is the ferrari 308 of our era, not the fasttest but fast enough and its a sweetspot all aorund. Stll the tubo s may be very compelling for some from a raw performance data perspective, and the GT3rs is what I woud prob go for, if I were still in the market, and you could actualy get one. So methinks for many its a tossup and the 570 looks to be very compelling..
1. Lux package with includes heated electric seats, BW stereo, soft close doors, and electric steering column will be on just about every car. ~$3-5K 2. Almost every car will have optional paint. Very few "standard" colors. ~$2-5K 3. Basic CF interior will be on many cars. (Very common option on 12C.) ~$2-3K 4. By McLaren two-tone interiors are not standard. Just "Extended Leather" is standard. ~$2-3K 5. Many cars will have the lift. ~$3-4K 6. Many will have sport exhaust. (Also almost impossible to find a 12C without it.) ~$4-6K 7. Many will have optional wheels. (Standard wheel 12C are very rare.) ~$2-5K These 7 options will be very common. Let's say you have just 5 of them. Even a mere $3K/option (which is quite reasonable for most of these things) would add up to $15K. All 7 would be $21K, and that's without any exterior CF. I can easy see people doing CF mirrors and splitters for another $5-15K, depending on how carried away they get. Even though none of the above options are necessary, they weren't necessary on the 12C either, yet the majority of people spec'd them. Barebones McLarens are not common, and I don't see why it would change with the 570S. Remember, 12C was $225K base. This is $185K base. I don't think the buyers have that different of taste of options.
McLaren of Newport Beach (at the 570S presentation last week) told us a fully loaded car with every option (sans a custom color not offered) will top out at $220k.
Other than the sports exhaust cant think of any of those options I would get, they are mostly pretty naff. Maybe a little extrernal Cf on the door intakes, but that woudl be it. And exhaust there will be betetr aftermarket ones. Soft close doors and electric seats, yuck. UI guess me be a sportscar man not aGT guy.
You most likely aren't the target customer and would be much better off with a GT3. Like I said, all these options are pretty much the norm on 12C/650S. Hard to find cars without them. I'd also point out that barebones 12Cs were impossible to move come resale.
Gotta digest the Gt40 first, resale, tend to buy things to keep forever, or at least 20 years by which time resale good. But yes you are right probably more a Gt3rs type of person, cept I have had very poor experience with porche dealers. Still think the 570 will create the type of sales volume Maca wants and needs. The car I woudl really like is a Gt4 with the Gt3rs motor.
I've posted the options list and prices (excluding MSO) in the 570S thread. The prices are very reasonable considering this is an exotic brand and car. I would be happy with about $20K in options. If you go the full CF route, it adds up quickly though. Can't imagine seeing cars with less than $15K in option. Most will probably have $20-25K in options. Can obviously get pretty high if you deck it out in CF, and that's before the MSO stuff.
