MCLAREN 720S OR 488

My understanding is that it is lighter weight. Pagani ises them as well for this reason as well as the dynamic nature of a single clutch I am told..



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No. Maurizio Reggiani( Chief Technical Officer at Lamborghini) stated that they were precluded of using the DCT and instead was compelled to use the single clutch due to space limitations.

 

Probably the most outrageous and coolest looking car of all but a challenge to drive at the limit.

 

There is more than one reason perhaps but clearly weight is a consideration as it is common knowledge that dual clutches are heavier and weight more. Below is the text from Lamborghinis own press release.

Below are the figures on the Pagani. It is 154lbs more for a dual clutch in their case. Below is Lamborghinis own press release on the subject. Reggianibmay be changing his tine now that a new model is coming out...frombabcost perspective probably easier to go to he double clutch route...





"The Pagani Huayra uses a seven-speed sequential gearbox and a single disc clutch.[3] The choice not to use a dual-clutch in an oil bath was due to the increase in weight of over 70 kg (154 lb), thus negating any advantage of the faster gear changes in a double-clutch transmission.[3] As a result, the entire transmission weighs 96 kg (212 lb).[3]"


Here is the text from Lamborghini' s press release on the Aventador:

However, it is not the engine alone that defines the character and driving characteristics of a super sports car. Another key element is the transmission. The demands are clear – the ratios must be perfectly arrayed and enable optimum power delivery from the engine. For maximum vehicle performance, shift times should be less than the blink of an eye. Operation must be clear and straightforward, via two ergonomic shift paddles behind the steering wheel. The characteristics of the transmission must be in line with the wishes of the driver at any given point – from smooth city cruising through to tough action on the racetrack. And, not least, Lamborghini customers expect an emotional shift feeling that ensures the sports car’s reactions can always be felt and understood. Thus, the development objective was clearly formulated in this respect, too – create the world’s most emotional gear shift.

For all these reasons, the engineers in the R&D Department opted for a robotized gearbox as the “companion” of the new V12 power unit – however, in a very special iteration: the Lamborghini ISR transmission. This robotized gearbox combines extremely fast shift times, almost 50% less than dual-clutch transmission with the benefits of a manual transmission in terms of weight and compact dimensions – both always critical for super sports cars
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Forgot this, here it is from Reggiani himself. As I said..weight and "emotion" (I called it dynamic). Why so decisively say "no" without knowing the whole story?

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20110110/COPY/301109943/1193


https://jalopnik.com/the-2017-lamborghini-aventador-s-will-make-you-an-insta-1792374541

Among other things Reggiani says:
“With a double clutch, there is no interruption of torque, but it’s not really emotional. This way, you have more emotion, more feeling of the gear, more feeling of power.” By the end of the day I was getting a kick out of these big bangs, and they’re now one of the main memories I have of the car. "

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Weight is a BS answer from Lambo. The car drives like a POS with that current box. The dual clutch would transform it into the most desiresble with no regard for added weight.

 

There is more than one reason. Cited reasons include emotion, weight and compactness. The real reason is compactness. I heard Reggiani, in a burst of candor, state in an interview that space limitations preclude the use of the DCT which is significantly larger. If it doesn't fit you must use an alternative or redesign the car which they deemed far too costly.

 

Agree on space being the issue.

 

The emotion statement is pr spin. It would have a dct had the car came a bit later. It was in development quite a while and dct were not really so common back then and would have probably required spending more money and launching later than that wanted to. Gaurantee the next one is a dct.

Even the Lamborghini forums are quite vocal about it needing a dct.

Technology has come a long way. I'd be surprised if you couldn't create an artificial "kick" with a dct if it was really that important.

 

720s vs 488 gtb over the 1/4 or 143mph vs 131

 

Easy solution. Don't follow it any longer.

 

488 on non standard wheels. 0-60 in over 3.5s is the best run. Not representative IMV, 488 has been regularly timed quicker than that.

 

Best run for 488 was 11.05 at 132. Best for 720 was 10.04 at 144.7. Like it or not that’s pretty much was these cars do. A 720S recently in Puerto Rico ran a 9.75 at 146.5 in 80 degree weather. Totally stock. The car is as quick as the big three. It also breaks and handles amazingly. The ONLY thing that would hold me back from buying one is Mclarens questionable track record of build quality.

But guys, the 488 is a great car. If you’re partial to the prancing horse it’s not like you’re making a bad choice in buying one.

 

I think we should get the mods to change the title of this forum to 448/488/720s

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Ok... As soon as we work out what a 448 is

 

You know the model below the 458

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Great car.... Very underrated

 

Never like mine too much.

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Let’s face it. - they are all beautiful cars and for Mr - every- day- driver off track it It it is all academic. If you feel the need to one upmanship it is a bit more personally reflective. That we are all lucky enough to be able to buy any one of them is a gift in itself. The trip into the great unknown is the great equaliser


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These are fun to watch. The 720 is truly impressive. These cars aren’t really drag cars though. The 488 is truly truly great. McLaren, in their need to really establish themselves have a car in the 720 that’s a bit of a “rate breaker” as they say in that it’s outperforming all of its peers and performing well about its class. However the McLarens do not have a fraction the reliability that Ferrari’s have and don’t have a 7 year maintenance plan. Ferrari is standing behind their product in a major way. I am curious what the lap time differences will be between the 488 and 720 on a road corse that suits both of them and doesn’t favor one car more than the other.

 

To be honest the 720S is probably the first real car from McLaren; before they only used superior power to be faster in straight line but were far from convincing on the rest of the engineering.
A 675LT achieves very similar times on track to those of a 488, in spite of being lighter and allegedly track focussed (and a 675LT is already significantly faster on the straight lines) - to me it's a sign it's not very efficient.
The 720S on the other hand is typically also faster on the track, so for me it's the first McLaren that's really a competitor.
It does not mean it's an obvious choice though, to choose a car there are many factors - and I guess if the goal is only to outperform in drag racing and be faster on track, there are cheaper alternatives.

 

I think that you are a bit unfair. The box in the Aventador is amazing when driven hard. These cars are not meant to crawl in the city after all.

By the way, a good single clutch is as quick as a dual clutch. It is more savage and less reliable though.

 

Most will agree that lightning fast speed and explosive off the line acceleration is always welcome. However, there are many more factors to be taken into account in choosing the car that will ultimately prove the most satisfying. The intangible sensation engendered by driving, touching and simply gazing at a vehicle cannot be diminished. For me, while pushing a car to its performance limits should provide an unmistakable adrenaline rush, cruising along on city streets should make one feel special as well. If the only circumstance in which the car provides exhilaration and enjoyment is at license revoking speeds or on a track, for me, there is something missing.

 

The Aventador is hardly a POS. It is a thrilling adventure. While the single clutch is admittedly not as seamless and refined as the DCT used in modern super cars, it is a blast to experience. Brings back the rawness of some of the best cars from the last decade and requires a level of skill to optimize its performance.

 

Just reading this thread . . . I appreciate the fact that you love cars, but you are making up things you know nothing about. If I were you, I'd change my style of posting. You have walked into a wall, face-first, about a dozen times by now.