MCLAREN 720S OR 488

I agree IF it was a spaceship (I don't have much experience with these) But this spaceship does not fly? Mission aborted back to the drawing board.

 

Painful to say this, but Mclaren has possibly beat Ferrari at their own game. McLaren in less than 10 years of making cars has made something that is objectively equal to or superior than Ferrari.

Ferrari has to improve in these areas immediately:
1) Overall build quality. Specifically, paint. Over my last 5 Ferraris (bought new and almost new) become truly awful. On my Scuderia there were sanding marks (DA marks) clear visible. On our 458 Spider the orange peel was horrendous. None of my other cars in the same league have paint like this. Go look at a Lamborghinis paint...perfection.
2) Styling. When Ferrari took their styling department in house (away from Pininfarina) the designs became way more technical (not pretty) and less elegant and timeless. It is obvious that when Ferrari used Pininfarina their engineers weren't dictating design elements.
3) No one in the mid engine v8 game should ever be able to beat Ferrari. McLaren hasn't beaten Ferrari they stole the show. Even when Ferrari comes out with a 'GTO' v of the 488 Mc will come out with their LT version of the 720. Anyone think Ferrari will some how regain their throne with their lightweight version of the 488? That would mean Mc would need to totally fumble the ball on their LT. Won't happen.
4) Ferrari screwed up when they stuck with making aluminum cars vs everyone else going to CF. Our sold Ferrari 458 Spider would shake like a mo-fo in certain common driving situations. It was very noticeable. Anything other than a butter smooth road and it would
shake like it was nervous when it hit a bump. If you hit a bump while turning the steering wheel would shudder. I sold the 458 mainly because of this issue. It was not acceptable when Alfa makes a shake-free 4c (which we own) and Lamborghinis Aventador Roadster (also CF...which we own) that the grand daddy of it all...FERRARI...isn't using Carbon Fiber. Aluminum is for cans.

As I and others have suggested, Ferrari is 2 (maybe 3?) generations behind McLaren now.

 

I am not sold on CF cars. Yes they are lighter, so yes they go faster. So do gocars and motorcycle. But CF when exposed to the outdoors environment over time really show its wear. Wait about 5 years owning a car made of CF. Not pretty. CF for interior accents OK, for structural ? It's "carbon" AKA coal, and we know what happens when it heats up it good for BBQ so it does not stand the test of time. Aluminum is strong and light does not rust like steel and will still look great in 20 years. Just my 2 cents

 

Just driven 2,000 miles with 488 spider and LT spider, both on P Zeros. Cars are almost identically matched. Didn't compare from rest but did plenty of full throttle accelerations between 30mph and around 100. 488 spider was fresh out of the box and the LT had approx 6k on the clock.

On stickier trofeos, the LT in the YouTube clip would get a tyre advantage from rest. In many ways, 570 is the real drag-race star since for a lot less cash you get a car with properly high performance. Would never have one over the 488 though - it's brilliant.

Lots of people seem prepared to claim each new McLaren product makes Ferrari irrelevant etc. etc. I don't buy it I'm afraid. Be interesting to see how well these products are compared in 10 years. When I bought a 12C spider, I was convinced it was a better choice than the 458 spider, mainly because of the carbon tub. Now? I can see why the 458 is still worth more.

 

I agree with you, a lot of cars are going CF since it's lighter. Even production cars like BMW are using CF since they can get better MPG so they are compliant with the FEDS who dictate how much MPG a car should have, or they tax you with a gas guzzler tax. For all those that claim how much better CF is for cars, google BMW and CF pretty scary. With all the bumps on the road, and constant vibrations, CF with crumble over time. It's also impossible or very costly to fix. And some YouTube videos of CF cars during accident, ouch .... dust to dust, if it was aluminum he would of been us. Maybe in few years CF will be better, but for now I will stick with metal.

 

12c is a bad comparison. I also did the same as you and I have no idea how you got the 488 is same level as LT on performance runs. Wow.
My view, 488 should have brought more to the table from outgoing 458. Heck, 570 closely matches 488 in most tests. In fact, I love 458 looks as I will get one as a daily. But when it comes to comparing 488 to 720?? Come on. That ship has sailed. I tried to like the 488 but after back to back runs with 720, well I ordered 720 and can't wait for it to arrive. 488 is an inferior product (technology, looks, aluminum etc) but that said, many have an emotional attachment to the brand and totally get it - kind of like beer goggles. McLaren needs to form that same brand loyalty. 570 was a start. 720 will further this goal.

 

488 platform is basically 7 years old (its an updated 458). 488 should be compared to the 650S (an updated 12C)

Why compare the two. Wait for the 488 replacement. Its will destroy the 720S (it has to).

 

Indeed Jon !

 

Not a comment on Mc vs F but questioning carbon fiber reliability? Think passenger jets. Far more torturous environment than any road car. Also consider LaF, 918 etc...

 

Fyi jets are aluminum all the way, except nose due to radar interference from aluminum. Not sure if it's CF rather fiberglass I think, newer ones might be CF

 

50% of the 787 by Boeing is carbon fiber and composites

AERO - Boeing 787 from the Ground Up

 

Agree. 488 replacement has no choice but to...it has to take much of the tech used with hyper cars and apply to the replacement similar to what the 720 did with the P1.

 

The is no problem with CF tubs. CF is a very durable material that will last longer than anyone would want the car.

 

Agreed. Not sure where his bias is coming from other than blind love of the prancing horse.

 

Yes everyone is going to CF for lighter weight, even the new 787 are moving now to CF ( as pointed out) we all want more MPG and are making cars/planes lighter, but I still prefer metal around me vs a CF plastic composite. Time will tell.

 

When the Ferrari F50 came out in 1995 it was thought the CF tub wouldn't last and would need to be replaced. It lasted. And in the last 20 years CF has become far more advanced, stronger and more reliable. There's a reason it's used to heavily. It's a superior product to Aluminum.

 

My 458 spider was the same, so bad in fact I didn't enjoy driving it. I'm shocked Ferrari would put out such a bad product. Even the California was better.

 

I had a CA as well and indeed, it didn't shake like the 458 Spider did.

 

And that's one of the reasons we should all buy coupes!!!

 

my Alfa 4c spider...no shake.
my Aventador Roadster...no shake.

Both CF tubs.

 

Still worse than their coupe counterparts. And no bodypart piece missing either... I mean, would you buy a roofless house?

 

But I look cool driving a red 458 spider!
And I don't think I ever hear of a report suggesting that a Ferrari spider was torn apart driving due to torsional forces. I don't track my spider, but I do rent a coupe when my heart desires more speed.

 

If the replacement for the 488 is not CF, it's going to be a major fail.

My hope is that its a physically smaller car as well. Sports cars are the size of Cadillacs today.

 

There is a video on YT showing a 991 GT3rs sitting next to a 720s...the Porsche is an absolute whale. Over the weekend I came across a Gallardo sitting among its more modern peers. The Gallardo looked small by comparison. (made me miss my 570-SL)

I doubt cars, in general, will get smaller. Americans associate larger cars with more value, quality, prestige.

Europeans don't hold these same values with regards to car sizes.

In my opinion, the only true sports car in the sense of a small, nimble, beautiful, fun creature is the 4c. Ignore all the BS about the 4c. Go drive one. 99% of those of you reading this will have never experienced anything so...pure and honest as the Alfa.

 

Mayor....zero chance it will be CF. There would be rumors flying already if this were going to happen. Ferrari outsources all over Italy to 'little' moms and pops. If Ferrari were going to pursue a CF chassis word would be out...

I fear Ferrari is going to lose a generation.