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McLaren appeal - It is all over

Discussion in 'F1' started by tifosi12, Oct 29, 2007.

  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 3, 2002
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    McLaren made another crucial mistake right after the Brazilian GP: They filed an appeal against the BMW, Williams teams. Well, that's wrong technically. They should have filed a protest against the race results. Only then could they file an appeal:

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    http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/peinlich-silberpfeile-stolpern-ueber-formfehler--74597
    Jetzt beginnt die Story interessant zu werden: McLaren-Mercedes hätte bis eine Stunde nach der Urteilsverkündung einen Protest gegen den Freispruch der beiden Teams einlegen müssen. Und was tat man im nervösen Silberpfeil-Lager? Man legte Rekurs ein – und das ist der Formfehler, da unbeteiligte Parteien (und das war McLaren-Mercedes) zuerst nur Protest machen können.

    In diesem Fall hätten die drei FIA-Kommissäre nochmals eine Anhörung an der Rennstrecke mit den Silberpfeilen, BMW-Sauber und Williams-Toyota einberufen müssen. Wäre danach das Urteil wieder zugunsten der zwei angeklagten Teams ausgefallen, hätte McLaren-Mercedes (als jetzt beteiligte Partei) Rekurs einlegen können – und das FIA-Berufungsgericht hätte tagen müssen! Das soll es jetzt am Donnerstag, 15. November, in Paris auch tun. Aber auch die FIA hat den Formfehler wohl erkannt.
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    You can call that a technicality, but technicalities have thrown many cases out of court. And that's what will happen to this one as Mosley already declared that Ferrari has won the title and nothing will change that:
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    http://www.blick.ch/sport/formel1/fia-boss-mosley-die-wm-ist-entschieden-74632

    Für uns ist die WM seit dem 21. Oktober entschieden. Ich hätte etwas mehr überlegt, bevor ich bei der FIA einen Rekurs mache!
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  3. Ambassiatore

    Ambassiatore Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2007
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    David Figueredo T.
    ...so they have zero poss of pulling this trick to make a deduction for the BMW and Williams teams...I cant find the meassuring procedures...Ive been trying to understand what the heck they are doing wrong and why, but nothing so far...
     
  4. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

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    I don't care anymore, just dismantle F1 tonight and let every thing in it die.
     
  5. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 10, 2007
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    Max M alluded to this over the weekend. Its not an appeal worth hearing. My guess it will be a short and unhappy day for the current cheating wannabe champs. Dont go away mad Mclaren, just GO AWAY!
     
  6. fluque

    fluque Formula 3

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    Yet another silly mistake by Dennis... he seems a bit out of place after all the mess his team/drivers made this season.
     
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  8. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    MC Cool Breeze
    who cares? final WDC is and will still be Kimbo ;)
     
  9. Brakefade

    Brakefade Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2007
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    So I would correct in assuming Mclaren can not appeal again, challenging the race results?
     
  10. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes and no: The meeting on November 15 still stands. But in all likelihood the FIA will dismiss the matter for this technicality and that'll be the end of it.
     
  11. bernardo66

    bernardo66 The Crazy Cat Man
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    "Even a drowning man will grab the tip of a sword" ...and that's Ron Dennis.

    He should just swallow the pill and focus on next year.
     
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  13. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I hope he impales himself on it.
     
  14. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    We will not know for sure who wins the WDC until after the hearing on 11-15-07 . But, it does look like Ferrari got both the WCC and WDC by default. First it devised an elaborate spy scheme to trap McLaren knowing full well it would bite resulting in it winning the WCC by . Then it won the WDC because the cars between Alonso and Hamilton were cheating with fuel temps . Both are hollow wins IMHO...
     
  15. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

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    Biased and clearly in the dark.

    If McLaren cheated and used an illegal car all year, why shouldn't the team lose the points? Why would Ferrari give McLaren info when they didn't know what the punishment would be? Also now that McLaren have the info, they can continue to improve on it for years to come, making Ferrari battle their own ideas on the track.

    And how did Ferrari convince McLaren to break the rules by taking the info, passing it around and using it to develop their car?

    Also, there is inconclusive data on the fuel temps., how did you come to the conclusion that the temps were over/ under the regulations? Perhaps you should submit your data to the FIA for comparison.

    SOUR GRAPES TO YOU AND YOU'RE MCLAREN WANNA-BES! GO CRY IN THE CORNER!
     
  16. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Somewhere between this statement...

    ...and this one...
    ...it is hard for me to decide which one is sillier.
    :)
     
  17. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    Andreas, have you read the newest issue of Motorsport Magazine? I believe its called the Wet Issue and has Senna on the Cover in a McLaren Honda in the Rain at SPA. There is an excellent article about the McLaren vs. Ferrari rivalary that began in 1976 to the present.
     
  18. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

    Nov 30, 2006
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    Tony:

    They also had a great article the previous issue about the history of spying in F1.

    Ferrari's hands are not as clean as some folks here would like to believe. Then again, there likely isn't a top flight team in F1 that doesn't spy on its competition. It is tough to maintain the moral high ground when you bury your head in the sand.
     
  19. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Spying is part of sports-and life, whether it is technical secrets or stealing signs (baseball) or videotaping the opposition' s coaches (Patriots). Governments do it all the time.

    Obviously it is wrong-yet it will happen again. No one has clean hands. The key part to these individuals is not getting caught-which McLaren ultimately failed miserably at.
     
  20. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I think spying is the wrong expression:

    - Video taping your competitors on track etc is really just gathering of information in the public. Nothing wrong or illegal about that. Reverse engineering is an art, hence the intellectual legwork still needs to be done.

    - Buying/stealing your competitors blue prints is illegal. Not even sure what McLaren did was technically spying because a Ferrari employee handed them everything on the silver platter. Not that this makes it any less illegal, it just doesn't deserve the term spying.
     
  21. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    And Ferrari AND McLaren and every other team will continue to purchase/obtain any bit of information they can from any other team whether that is a photo, blue print, CD, etc. because like it or NOT it is 100% part of the sport and always has been.

    McLaren's only mistake (in this area) was to get caught.
    Pete
     
  22. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    exactly....
     
  23. TonyL

    TonyL F1 Rookie

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    For the chief mechanic (£850K pa salary remember) of Ferrari to hand over such a large document on how to build a 2007 race car to Mclaren is a disgrace. One on the stupidity of Ferrari to allow one engineer that amount of access to confidential info, the other to Mclaren for receiving stolen goods (which is a crime whichever country you are in) and then seek out Ferrari to sign an accord with them for an "open and honest" approach in future dealing. Hypocrisy or just revenge?

    Seeking a competitive advantage, sandbagging and misleading your competitior is all fair game.
     
  24. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

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    that doesnt make it right of course - but you yourself are correct

    sad but true :(
     
  25. F355Bvc

    F355Bvc Formula 3
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    Frank, Ferrari did not win anything by default. Even if you count the points that McLaren would have scored, FERRARI won the Constructors Championship by 1 point !!!!!!
     
  26. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Seriously though, what harm does it really do?

    It's not like somebody was murdered, raped, etc. All that has happened is that technology advances have been shared quicker ... which means F1 gains performance. I really don't see the big deal about it. Yep Ferrari didn't have quite the technological advantage they expected ... who cares, made the racing better and they still have the advantage because they have all their research, etc. behind the designs. The last thing I want to watch is one team (which ever team) have a superior technical advantage and BY LAW no other team is allowed to use it ... thus that team wins by 10 laps every race.

    I still say, and always will, that the FIA should have smacked Ron Dennis's hand and said "you naughty boy" and then left it at that ... and turned around to Ferrari and said "Is your team made up of completely naive idiots? ... keep your stuff secure if you don't want others to get it"

    Pete
     
  27. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    OK, I think I have waited long enough. I was waiting for you to repost and tell us that this little gem was a tongue - in - cheek jab at the conspiricay theory people.

    If I am wrong, (and if you really are serious about the "elaborate spy scheme to trap McLaren") then you have out-done even Rosie O'Donnell on the subject of building demolition. I salute the creativity, in a whimsical UFO/Bigfoot sort of way.

    BTW, it sort of makes one wonder why Coughlin didn't just ask Stepney the basic question "are you sure you are not a cop?" and look carefully into his eyes for signs of deceipt?
     
  28. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
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    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    I heard a Halloween rumor about Max, RD and Bernie. They all killled each other, deciding which one would get to play God for Halloween! Hope it is not a rumor!
     

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