McLaren BP23 | Page 2 | FerrariChat

McLaren BP23

Discussion in 'McLarenChat.com' started by 250P, Mar 23, 2017.

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  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,541
    Vegas baby
    Mark: we will forgive you for that. :)
     
  2. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    Mark you lost me at FF haha

    BP23 will do very well IMO, don't think for a moment McLaren don't know what they're doing, in a very short time they are already challenging the best of the best
     
  3. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    #28 kizdan, Apr 29, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
    The F1 was Murray's baby. It was entirely his concept. There wouldn't have been an F1 without him. It was light years ahead of its time. Of course, no designer works on a car alone, he has a team. Was the suspension specialist more knowledgeable than Murray about suspension? Probably. Does that make his smarter than Murray?

    I'm sorry, but for you to play down Murray's stamp on the F1 is a massive oversight. You are missing the whole point of the F1. He IS the F1. No McLaren road car produced since then has anywhere the significance and pedigree the F1 has. Why do you think an F1 is worth so much more than any of Ferrari's supercars?
     
  4. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 13, 2015
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    Jon
    I don't want this to come across crude, but why does it matter? So there won't be another F1? Not really the worst problem currently facing the world.
     
  5. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    Oh, are we now addressing world issues in this thread?

    This thread is about the F1's supposed "successor". If you want to talk about a successor, then address what car is being succeeded, and the history behind it. That's how you determine if something is a worthy successor or not.

    So yes, it matters greatly, at least to a real enthusiast.
     
  6. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    You just seem very upset about the whole thing. Are you in the market for a F1 successor? If not then why are you so upset. You do realize you're arguing in this thread with certain people who are actually in the market for an F1 successor and could even buy an F1 if they wanted.
     
  7. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    Not upset in the least bit. Just having a discussion. I don't care if someone can afford whatever they want, my point of view does not change. What difference should that make anyways?

    You are plenty free to disagree with whatever you like.
     
  8. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    I think as soon as you guys understand its not an F1 successor you'll stop disagreeing with each other.
     
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  9. Peloton25

    Peloton25 F1 Veteran

    Jan 24, 2004
    7,645
    California, USA
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    Erik
    B-I-N-G-O

    >8^)
    ER
     
  10. 444sp

    444sp Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2016
    506
  11. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
  12. Caracciola

    Caracciola Karting
    BANNED


    First, McLaren F1 team has nothing to do with McLaren Cars. Second, their lack of performance in F1 has more to do with the Honda engine deficiencies than their own chassis. Even Gordon Murray couldn't do anything about a dud engine.

    Also, the inflated value of McLaren F1 road car has more to do with their limited number than anything else; just above 100, I believe. Those F1s are collectors items and attract investors. It's rarity that pushes prices up; although the F1 was a damned good car in its own right.
     
  13. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
    10,065
    Boulder, CO
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    Scott
    I wouldn't say the McLaren F1 road car price is inflated, it is high for a reason; it's the greatest road car of its century. And to say the price has more to do with the number produced than anything else is not correct. Certainly that is part of its high value, but there are lots of cars with production numbers fewer than the F1's that are worth virtually nothing in comparison.
    Rarity in and of itself means nothing. You must have high desirability combined with rarity, which is exemplified by the F1.
     
  14. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    I'll stop you right there.

    That is except when their legendary Championship-winning Formula 1 car designer gets carte blanche to build a street car. In that case, the street going F1 has everything to do with Formula 1.
     
  15. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Scott
    Yes, and that:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=OgIQmKfhHrE
     
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  16. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
  17. teak360

    teak360 F1 World Champ

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    When the McLaren F1 was being developed I met Ron Dennis in Monaco. I asked him a question everyone already knew the answer to, but I just wanted to see his reaction.
    I said, "So, is Gordon Murray a genius?". I'd barely finished the question when Dennis said, "Yes!".
     
  18. Caracciola

    Caracciola Karting
    BANNED


    I agree that the McLaren F1 was an exceptional car that attract many people to buy it, but the fact that it is in very limited number is what pushes its value so high.
     
  19. Caracciola

    Caracciola Karting
    BANNED

    You didn't seem to understand my post. McLaren Cars and McLaren F1 are 2 completely different entities.
    McLaren Cars has a team of engineers that created a range of desirable supercars, but nobody can extract any meaningful performance from the Honda-powered car in the F1 team.
     
  20. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Formula 3

    Oct 24, 2006
    1,085
    Highway to Hell
    The same team as P1 is working on BP23
    You can bet that we are going to have an amazing car on our hands....in all the important areas, performance, quality and aesthetics....
     
  21. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    just not enough info out there yet. it will be an exciting car for sure though.
     
  22. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    I'm sorry, but when someone makes a statement such as ".......the company has a whole bunch of people who are at least at Gordon Murray's caliber now.......", that clearly tells me that is not the case. That may be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read concerning McLaren. And pointing out that he had a chat with Murray back in December, trying to pass that off as if it means he knows everything about him, is laughable. Why would you even bring that up?
     
  23. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    Can't speak for Mark but .. in all due respect McLaren do have a pretty amazing crew working on their road cars. Many of which have come from the holy grail of car companies. Are they GM material? of course not.
     
  24. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    And he even claims they are at least at Gordon Murray's caliber now.............................and if you can believe, a whole bunch of them!
     
  25. MarkNC

    MarkNC Formula Junior
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    May 22, 2012
    787
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    Mark
    Yes and I stand by that. Time marches on and I'm taking specifically in reference to the F1 road car, not the Formula One races cars and not the F1 racing derivatives that raced at places like Le Mans.

    At last year's Pure McLaren even in Austin I was on track with an F1 and I was totally shocked how slow and floppy it was. It simply can't stand up to today's modern machines and nobody, in their right mind, would expect it to. In a 45 minute race a P1, heck a 12C, would easily lap it several times. Forget expensive cars like McLarens. A Corvette, Porsche GT3RS or Viper ACR are more advanced now. The F1 doesn't have the brakes, tires, suspension, aerodynamics or acceleration to keep up. So by that standard many of McLaren's folks have surpassed Gordon and if you don't think so go ahead and point me to the evidence of what he's done since the F1 to illustrate how he's kept up.

    The Mercedes 300SL Gullwing was one of the fastest and most advanced cars in the world when it was first put on sale but a run-of-the-mill Toyota Camry will whip it at a stop light and beat it around a track too. It doesn't matter that the Mercedes can hit a top speed of 150 mph and the Camry can maybe only go 130.

    BTW, I'm not knocking the guy. He's done incredible work and deserves incredible praise. But technology marches on and McLaren has plenty of people working on vastly more advanced machinery today.
     

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