your knowledge on F1's is truly amazing!! Do you know of the biggest gathering of F1'S outside of the one's in the factory at any given time? Like where owner's have come together? I've seen 2 sets of pictures,the one from the pistonhead thread a few pages back,and another one with 2 GTR kitted one's somewhere in the country side with mist/fog around them,that's it. Has there ever been like 4/5 together that were not at a factory or brunei?
Well thanks - but I have been at this for a very long time, so hopefully I would have learned more than a few things. I certainly can not take all the credit - there have been many more people who have a similar passion and have assisted in gathering this info along the way. On to your question - If there have been those sorts of gatherings - and there was a rumor of one that did appear on the internet several years ago now - then sadly I did not receive an invitation, and I've never seen photos as a result. The owner of the ZAZ Museum did have four together at one time - #053, LM2, 58F1GT and GTR #13R. The Japanese car magazine "Rosso" got access to them for an article and printed an image of them together embeded below. McLaren pulled together one of each primary type of F1 for the second photo below - doesn't really meet your criteria, but figured it was worth sharing. Front and center is the F1 road car; dead in the middle is '95-spec F1 GTR #01R, the one that won LeMans; front right is XP1 LM, the LM prototype; front left is '96-spec F1 GTR #10R, now owned by Nick Mason; in the back on the left is 56XPGT, the F1 GT prototype; and back right is GTR #20R, one of the '97-spec longtail racers. Another similar shot sits below that - these cars were gathered together as part of the filming of "The Car's The Star: McLaren F1" which aired on the BBC in 1999 or so and hosted by Quentin Willson. I have the 4-part video hosted on YouTube and everyone who's a fan of the F1 should watch it. Next is a photo pulled from 'Driving Ambition' that was taken at the original F1 GTR Launch Party, held at the factory very early in 1995. Again, doesn't meet your criteria, but I can't think of another shot with this many F1s in it. It appears there may be 9, or at least 8. We're currently have a discussion in the F1 forum on exactly what chassis numbers each car might be, and for some of them there are a few possibilities which is surprising because only 25 F1s, plus the 5 road car prototypes had been completed up to that point, and as you can see there isn't even a single Silver F1 in the shot which are usually the ones we struggle with. Another factory-arranged gathering of F1s occurred at the 1995 Goodwood Festival of Speed, which happened just shortly after the F1s overall win at the 24 Hours of LeMans. If you look closely, there are 6 F1s in the shot, with GTR #06R in yellow hidden behind GTR #01R there. The last photo was taken in the McLaren Customer Care facility in Woking - exactly what you aren't looking for (sorry) - but I still felt it belonged with this grouping. If you count the very tiny corner of the nose of what should be XP5 seen lower right, then there are 7 McLaren F1s in this shot. I have no idea which ones the three silver cars are, but the orange one to the left with the wing is #073, the blue one front and center is #011, and the other orange one behind it should be #075 or perhaps less likely, chassis #038. Other than that, it's pretty uncommon to see more than two F1s together unless you are standing in Ralph Lauren's garage and he has all his F1s in the same place. >8^) ER Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Erik, I just e-mailed you some pictures of the bumpers and lights. I have them in the crate and have not taken them out for closer inspection. Let me know what you think. Feel free to post. I can try to take them out of the crate, but there are some really heavy duty steel items that the bumpers are bolted to. I guess they are crated really well. Kind Regards, Steve
Got your email Steve - thank you very much! The pictures you sent are here for everyone below. Without a doubt, someone put some serious time and effort into building that crate and the mounting brackets to preserve these items, and I 100% agree with you on their origins as Ameritech F1 modification parts. They match up perfectly, and there's really nothing else they could be. I note on the side of the crate it says "F1 MCLAR - DO NOT SELL". That's probably a good idea, though I can't imagine anyone ever wanting or needing to refit these items to any of the F1s based on my understanding of those car's legality here in the USA now. I didn't realize what part of Florida you were in when I made my earlier comments, but now I can see you're on the opposite coast from Osprey where Petrik's cars were. Still, I think the F1 these came off of was one of his, and I'm going to revise my guess to be chassis #045, which was the only "Dark Silver" Ameritech F1. After your three images of the crated parts below, I've included five shots of chassis #045 from June 2002 when Seth Neiman owned the car in the Silicon Valley area - to me, the paint color would be almost an exact match. Let me know what you think? If it does turn out to be that car, and whoever owns these parts has no reason to continue keeping them, I could pass your contact info along to its current owner in NY. He might be interested in reuniting these parts with the car - though keeping them stored inside the crate, of course - or he might only have interest in setting the crate on fire... who knows? It would be great if you could remove the parts - perhaps just one front bumper-ette, one of the headlight assemblies, and the rear bumper piece to take better photographs of their mounting hardware and such from all sides. I'm especially interested in the rear bumper as this is the first time I have heard of or seen that. I can understand though if you can't or don't wish to disturb them as they sit, but it would be great to get more visual details. Again - many thanks for sharing what you have. While these parts are so less-than-cool when they were fitted to a McLaren F1, uncovering them like you have is quite the treasure, I think. = = = = = = I also need to correct one thing I said earlier about the Ameritech F1s not being physically inspected. Two of the Ameritech F1s did supposedly go to Ann Arbor, MI to the EPA's National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory for formal testing. Perhaps they arrived with a very large check stashed in the glove compartment though? >8^) ER Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
When the pic on ExoticSpotter first surfaced, the user here named jgcferrari alerted me to it. He lives in Mexico and thought he knew about most of the important cars there, but the F1 came as a surprise to him. He asked me if I knew anything and while I had heard about this brown F1, I had never seen photos and had no idea where it lived. The ExoticSpotter submission came with just this small bit of info: "Culiacan, Mexico - 05/25/2004" jgc mentioned that area of Mexico "wouldn't suprise me because it is a place full of Drug Lords." He then went looking for anything else he could find out about the car through local sources and message forums on the web and came back fairly rapidly with that second photo of the car, and this note that references a possible owner: After that, despite his best efforts and some of my own, there's been no new information or photos that have surfaced on this car. The one thing we have determined with about 50% certainty is that this should be chassis #039, listed by McLaren as having been originally painted "Creighton Brown". The other possibility would be #029, painted "Brazilian Brown Metallic" which used to be a Mercedes Benz factory color. The other brown F1 appeared in Japan not long ago and was for sale through the dealer ArtSports. In their description, they failed to include the chassis number as many do, but they did list the color of that car as "Burajirianburaun" which translated to "Brazilian Brown". Part of the problem with the two brown cars and determining their chassis numbers is that their color names may have been reversed by accident on the Chassis History poster that was included with 'Driving Ambition' that nearly every reference on the cars you will find is based on, so until someone puts there eyes on the chassis plate of one of the two cars, that '50% certainty' is going to continue to hang out there. >8^) ER
Erik, You have probably been asked before, but what is your favorite McLaren? F1, GT? LM? Any particular model?
Sort of like asking a parent to choose between their children, isn't it? Kidding... Frankly, a standard road car would suit me just fine. If they'd never gone racing with the F1 that's really the only variation of the car that would probably exist, as every other variant was born out of some connection to the F1 GTRs. Initially the plan was for just 5 racers, and in the end they built 28 in three varieties. Actually, initially the plan wasn't to race the F1 at all, but I think it is great that they decided to, and amazing the results that were achieved, especially as the competition increased from the likes of Porsche and Mercedes Benz. But back to the F1 road car and why I covet it the most. It was Gordon Murray's vision, crafted in his head over several decades and developed further by a team of engineers over a 3-4 year period under his direction. It is the purest form of the car and that which all others are based on. If the road car had been less spectacular, all the variants would have been less by the same measure most likely. From the pen of Peter Stevens' without anything tacked on, and with the fantastic normally aspirated engine of BMW Motorsport's Paul Rosche and team. It is the unique and wonderful McLaren F1. It is raw, yet elegant; its increbily fast while at the same time being docile if you want and have that much self control. It carries three with luggage on a road trip without fuss or discomfort. The packaging is simplistic, yet genius. The controls are positioned just as they should be and give the driver great feedback. The view out the front for the driver is second to none. I think if someone were truly brave enough to do so, they could drive it every single day. I certainly appreciate all other forms of the F1 - even the longtails, as I understand why they were a necessity, even if I don't particularly favor their look as a road car with the F1 GTs. The LMs are of course fantastic, and I can understand why some would rank them highest as they are the race car for the street and truly exotic looking with all that exposed carbon and the shocking Papaya paint. They have more power and less weight, offer no compromises and a truly tremendous sound without a proper exhaust silencer or sound deadening throughout the car. I'm sure an experience in one would leave your body tingling in a way the F1 road car just can't. Even the pair of road cars with the LM-spec engine fitted are probably as fantastic as they should be, designed as the ultimate F1 variant, and also ending up being the most exclusive. They mix all the pleasure of the finest F1 road car with that extra 50 or so bhp to really knock out almost any competitor. But I prefer the pure form of the original. The GTRs did an excellent service for the McLaren F1 legacy - with an overall win at LeMans in their first attempt, and several other successes too numerous to list - they gave the McLaren F1 that extra level of credibility that most other new supercars, short of the ones from Ferrari, seem to lack these days. Pagani's are impressive, and they make a race version, but what have they won? Koenigsegg has talked of doing similar with no results so far. Lets not even discuss some of the other pretenders on the market. You can even have your GTR converted for use the road - satisfying a similar urge provided by an F1 LM for far less than the cost of entry on one of them. Just don't look to bring along two passengers like you can in the LM or road cars, as those GTRs are only able to make room for one in addition to the driver. Short of all of that you can have your standard road car fitted with the High Downforce Kit to give the look of an LM or GTR without all those compromises. There are performance benefits to this, but there's something kind of 'hey look at me' about those compared to an unmolested road car; where even though I am wowed by them as I should be, I'd still prefer the untouched purity of the F1s original design. Yes, in the end I'd take a standard road car first and foremost, unless I could afford a sample platter of sorts like the ZAZ Collection photo in post #479 shows. One note on that - I'd probably swap his F1 GT for a longtail GTR, as to me the longer bodywork seems a little awkward without that rear wing. As for exactly which F1 - that becomes a tough decision. My two favorites have been XP4 and #051 for quite a long time. XP4 is Electric Blue and as the 4th road car prototype is now the second oldest F1 remaining in existence. Gordon Murray's XP3 the only earlier car. Of course I like XP4's owner a lot - he uses the car, shares it with others, and is quite enthused over it, so I'd never want to take it from him nor do I think it's 'for sale' at any price at the moment. Getting XP4 would be good though, because it is already here and legal in the USA. Chassis #051 is dark green, and has a unique but appealing green leather and suede interior. I might have the red center section of the drivers seat reskinned with black, but otherwise I'd be quite pleased with it as-is. Green is a color I often like, and since Liam Howlett of 'The Prodigy' fame had the gall to repaint the only "British Racing Green" F1 ever built (#023) in a shade of Silver, of all colors; and the original owner of the "Mercedes Green Velvet" F1 (#073) had his repainted Orange; then other than XP5, chassis #051 is now the only green option left on an F1 road car unless you want to pay for a respray of something. And that's the nice thing about this car too - I believe anyway, that it is still exactly as it looked when it originally left the factory, and there just aren't too many F1s left that you can say that about nowadays. Another nice thing about #051 is its one of those F1s that just sits around today so I'd like to think I'd be doing the car a favor. Since late 2005 it has been in Japan, seen only once outside of the second-floor showroom of LightAuto1 where it lives in the corner by the window most of the time. I have been told that a price slightly higher that $3M might be enough to pry it away from its current owner, but I am still a lot short of that amount when I check my accounts. Besides a lack of funds to complete the purchase, the other challenge should money rain from the sky tomorrow is that #051 is a 1996 F1, which means that the EPA would require it conform to their OBD-II standards enacted that year. Some say this can't really be done, but it's been done at least once before, maybe even three times now, and hopefully would be possible to achieve again, for a price of course. Here are a sample of the better pics that exist of #051 which unfortunately isn't very many, starting with some from its time in Europe. The first two were taken July 5th, 2005 just a day or two before it left for Japan with GTR #11R in the foreground of the first image. The last two show the car in its current 'resting place' in Japan - waiting for me, I think. >8^) ER Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Erik, in your post about owner get-togethers, I think you forgot to mention the gathering where Harold Dermott, Gordon Murray, and the Pink Floyd drummer (can't for the life of me remember his name, grrrr) showed up in their F1s and drove to France and back. Some Marlboro sponsored shindig, I believe it was. There were other notable cars there too, and I believe these were the only F1s. When Rowan Atkinson shipped his to Dubai, I would not be surprised if he met up with Moh'd Sulayim and his F1. I don't know of any pics. In the US, at one of the events in Laguna, where you got a ride (I believe), there were two F1s. Not sure if the owners connected, and certainly it was not an F1 gathering, but there were two F1s there within a couple of hundred feet of each other.
Very true - that was David Clark, Gordon Murray and Nick Mason btw. Thanks for the reminder. The event was called "The Alfred Dunhill Motorities Tour" and it occurred in 2005. A brief story on it can be found here. Not sure there was any Marlboro association to it though? http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3700.asp?id=12493 I'd imagine there may have been other similar gatherings over the years when convenient, but nothing large and organized like an owner's gathering for F1s where 10 or more cars have been together at the same time, which seemed to be the point behind his query. = = = = = = Earlier I alluded to such an event having been discussed at one point. The details of which take us back to May 2003 when info on it was first shared in the F1 forum: Then shortly after that from the same individual: Then I found this info on it, which I used a web-translator to convert to English - so it reads a little funny: And... Then Octane magazine published this little blurb about it in their July 2003 issue: Finally one of the French participants (not Phillipe this time) sent an email on to that email address and received this reply: Later in October of 2003 I came across this on Sportcarmarket.com: Since then - there's been no further updates on it and I've certainly not stopped paying attention, so it seems the idea died due to scheduling issues or lack of interest from F1 owners. I've heard the Mohammed bin Sulayem F1 rumor before, but after all these years I am still not convinced he owns one or has ever owned one. He's hardly a private person in that part of the world compared to most, and pictures of his car collection including several very important cars have been posted online or in print through official and unofficial sources many times. Not once have I ever seen or read from a credible source that he owns a McLaren F1. In fact, one story that I did read was that he had been interested in an F1, but did not like something about how he was treated when he attempted to purchase one so he just chose not to. I have no idea if that's true, but in my eyes it is as true as him having an F1 that no one has ever seen or photographed or that he has never commented on in his many interviews. Yes, XP4 was on display that Saturday in the BMWCCA VIP section and chassis #068 was the one that I got my ride in. I know that Richard, then owner of #068, did make it over to see XP4 for a bit after I informed him it was there, but at that point Larry Blair, who is XP4's owner, wasn't anywhere near the car. As we drove past on one of the exit roads out of the Laguna paddock (with 4 people in #068 - don't ask...) I was able to look out the window and see XP4 sitting where it was displayed which was kind of neat, but we didn't have time to bring the two cars together for any kind of photo-op as it was getting late and there were other events on the agenda that evening for Richard and his friends. The following year chassis #016 was in the paddock at Laguna Seca, and #014 was crossing the block at the RM Auction. This past year, the new owner of chassis #068 had his F1 in town while Symbolic Motorcars brought up GTR #19R and displayed it at The Quail. Monterey remains the best chance to see an F1 each year in the USA, with the Goodwood FOS the event to hit for those in the UK. It does often require a bit of luck though. >8^) ER
I've just tripped over some fantastic information which I've known for a long time, but did not recall when composing that earlier post. While completed in 1996, the actual VIN of #051 is SA9AB5AC2S1048051 That 'S' in the 8th to last position, going back to the discussion on the Ameritech cars, means that the year of production for this F1 was 1995, and not 1996. While we don't have all the F1 VINs recorded and confirmed, this one was obtained via a scan of its European registration document and should be accurate. That means no OBD-II requirement for US importation!! Now I just need that $3-4 Million... >8^) ER
A very senior person at the McLaren factory told me there was one in the Middle East and the owner had his private mechanic trained at McLaren so he could get the smaller things done. I remember he said it was in Dubai...of course that doesn't mean that Moh'd bin Sulayim is the owner. I don't remember the details as this conversation took place several years ago. It could be anyone in Dubai...
Erik, I have a question and I only re-ask because perhaps things have changed... Where Can I View a Mclaren ? I know you recently posted theres one on display in the ZAZ museum, but where else ? Im sure there has to be at least a couple in the public eye. Thanks for sharing all of your knowledge on these cars.
Hey Erik, I've been reading your recent posts the last few pages and truly you are definitely one of the most knowledgeable F1 guys I've ever known. With that said, I was hoping you can shed some light on this pic below, actually I've been wanting a larger size of it, I don't know if you might have one. I got it off of msnautos.com a pretty long time ago and they had nothing on the F1 but it was used as a pic to promote a top 10 list of desired exotic cars... As far as I can tell, there looks to be 4 cars for sure, I think there looks like another one to the far far left of the picture, like the tail end of an F1 but I can't be sure.. http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t126/Murcielago6/AAB8F5363B20BEC149D5468906EC8.jpg Sorry for the size, it's the biggest one I've found!
The factory have made similar arrangements for a few owners who have private mechanics. The former owner of #068 in Costa Rica has a mechanic who used to post on here and was similarly trained by the factory to take care of the car. Do you recall when this comment was made though? We did see photos of the white #053 in an airplane strapped to a shipping crate in June 2008, reportedly headed for the 'Middle East'. That car has not resurfaced since being spotted, and could be in a very private collection there. Also, GTR #08R is in Dubai, and is road registered there. It is painted Papaya Orange to look similar to the LMs and owned by Sheikh Abdullah Al Khalifa. Photos of it there first surfaced in March 2005 and I don't believe it had been there too long at that point. Japan is actually the only place I am aware of that an average person would have a chance to see an F1 at the moment. ZAZ Museum is likely the easiest option if you go there during the hours they are open, and you'll get to see an F1 GT and F1 LM - what could be better? There are also two dealers in Japan; BingoSports in Tokyo and LightAuto1 in Nagoya if you can gain access to that 2nd floor which do have F1s. BS may have a silver road car hanging around, but should definitely have the Gulf longtail GTR #28R which they've been offering since January 2008 at a price of around $4M. They are obviously way ahead of the curve on GTR pricing with that ask, but it is the last F1 GTR ever produced and is in immaculate condition. The LightAuto1 car is the green chassis #051 I just covered here, but I am fairly certain the 2nd floor area isn't a place you can just wander into without permission. SPS Automotive in Hong Kong have chassis #064 - a silver F1 road car. I am not certain if the car is always kept in their showroom, but that's another possibility. Oakfields in the UK have been keeping GTR #07R for quite a while. Again, this isn't a place that just anyone can wander into I don't believe, but perhaps a polite email or phone call could allow someone access. I am not sure? Another 'if you can gain access' location is in Munich, Germany at the BMW Group Classic Collection, also sometimes referred to as the 'Mobile Tradition Museum'. This building houses one copy of just about every significant BMW ever made, and has a large selection of racers to showcase their motorsports heritage. The museum owns three McLaren F1s - a silver road car (#047) a '96-spec GTR (#18R) and a '97-spec longtail GTR (#26R). Access to see the cars is not impossible - but must be arranged well in advance and I believe requires some connections to make it happen. The last place I can think of is the McLaren Technology Centre in Woking, England - however you will most definitely need an invitation to get in there, especially right now while they are so focused on preparing their cars for the upcoming Formula One season, and ramping up for production of the new MP4-12C. They should have at least one GTR on display (#20R) and perhaps the LeMans winner (#01R) as well. XP1 LM was last seen on a turntable inside a glass presentation room adjacent to the main walkway along the 'lake'. XP5 used to hold station on that walkway there too, but I saw photos and video of it that led me to believe that McLaren may have finally sold that car recently. More on that story as it develops, and if it develops, which I hope it will. Other than that, I can't think of a single F1 sitting in any kind of public location that is available for viewing on a whim, if you will. The best opportunities will always be at the major automotive enthusiast gatherings I mentioned above - Monterey and Goodwood - but usually both require a bit of luck unless the car has been publicized in advance that it will be somewhere, as was the case with #014 when auctioned by RM. >8^) ER
"That's what she said?" Anyway, thanks for the compliments. I try my best along with several others to get the story straight. We each keep each other honest and remind the rest when we forget something too. In the end we do get most of it right, and have wiggled our way through several F1 mysteries over the years. I'm perhaps the most vocal of the bunch, and always willing to share in a discussion like this. Familiar with the photo you posted, and do have a somewhat larger version to share with you, along with another that is bigger still, but is a bit grainy from being scanned. It was taken inside the Customer Care facility in Woking which is a common place to see multiple McLaren F1s, as the large majority of owners want their cars in top condition at all times and many would say that the factory does the best work. The LM should be the prototype, XP1 LM. The silver car on the lift in the background with the wing is likely #059, the silver or perhaps white car in the middle is anyone's guess, and I'd imagine that the dark colored car in the foreground you can just see the tail end of would be XP5, as it spent most of its time over the years at that location. Enjoy! >8^) ER Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi! The dark green was in the collection of one Bryant-Meissner, a Swedish IT-guy that made a nice "exit". He used to have a nice collection. (Porsche GT1, CLK-GTR, Dauer EB110, Dauer 962 and an F1GTR, among others... He now has only the Dauer 962 and the CLK-GTR left - plus a 550 Barchetta, Suderia and a 599GTB) http://sportbilen.se/bilder/bilder/sb2.jpg http://www.bmwm5.com/temp/1/DSC00922.JPG http://www.bmwm5.com/temp/1/DSC00923.JPG http://www.bmwm5.com/temp/1/DSC00925.JPG http://www.bmwm5.com/temp/1/DSC00937.JPG
I'd say with what he still has left that he's still got a nice collection. And yes, his name has been well circulated on #051, as well as #11R in your photos that's now in Northern Italy, and GTR #23R which has now found its way to Canada in the collection of Lawrence Stroll these days. >8^) ER
Erik, is the one that was displayed at the casino in Macau still there, so far as you know? Also, wasn't there some racing group in Connecticut (I think) that had one on display? Otherwise, I think you got the list pretty much dead on.
My conversation with the head of customer relations at McLaren happened several years before al Khalifa in Bahrain acquired his F1.
I have been in this room, but at the time they were just starting to build the SLR. There used to be a workbench in the far left, and it's right against the wall. So there are only four McLaren F1s in the picture. At the time this picture was taken, it looks like there are two pallets stacked on top of each other, or perhaps just regular shelves. Certainly not another F1.
Yeah I noticed it int he larger pictures that Erik posted.. Thanks for the clarification though A little Michael Scott hahaha Thanks Erik!
I think the one in Macau was only for 6 months on dispay. Here is a link to the tread in the asian section were you can also find some pictures I took in the City of Dreams: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245766&highlight=McLaren+F1+Macau&page=2 Martin
The Macau car should be gone now. When first announced, they said the car would only be there through the end of 2009. If anyone is in the area, it might not hurt to drop in, but I wouldn't suggest anyone make a special trip. The racing group in Connecticut you are thinking of was Highcroft Racing in Danbury. They had two F1s on display in their showroom in mid-2006. By February of 2007, the cars were both back in the UK. They were GTR #12R in Gulf livery, and GTR #21R in FINA livery - both at the time owned by Aaron Hsu. Aaron has since sold #21R to a friend, Christian Glasel, of Germany, and purchased chassis #069 which at the time he bought it was a black HDF Kitted road car. The rather bizarre story I heard was that Glasel then bought #069 from Aaron and had the car returned to stock configuration by removing the Downforce Kit, and then Aaron decided he liked it that way and bought the car back. No idea if true on that sequence, but its kind of funny anyway. >8^) ER
Good idea sharing that link Martin - and thanks once again for your efforts with those photos. Without them, this car would have come and gone from the display in Macau and we'd still be left wondering exactly which F1 it was. >8^) ER
