This is a key point IMO...."If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewiss actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."
Problem is... only 2 laps to go.... not enough time. Often it seems to me that ''incident between car x and car y is under investigation" pops its head up a few laps later. That is, maybe there is an initial becoming aware of an incident, then initial thought on whether is it worth deeper investigation or not. Seems to usually take more than 2 laps.
Wow if race control confirm the validity of a pass TWICE then I would find the FIA hard pressed to prove that McLaren and LH did anything wrong. It seems as though McLaren did more than what was reasonable to ensure that the pass was clean. We'll see what happens. Logic does not always prevail when the FIA is concerned...
Agreed. It's a totally bogus decision. However, I already know what will happen. The FIA will not overturn the decision. They will either say the appeal is invalid and refuse to hear it, or they will say there is not enough evidence to overturn the decision that was made, and that the stewards "on the ground" have the best information and make the call based on the info they have, etc, etc, etc. They will say that race control can give an opinion, but it is ultimately the stewards decision if any penalty is handed out. It absolutely should be overturned, but it won't be - especially because it's McLaren.
Martin Whitmarsh is quoted as saying: "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'. " I guess this raises a few issues: Who asked for and who received the okay? Was this official or just a bit of opinion? How was this okay phrased or expressed? - it is very different if it was just "seems ok to me" versus "we can say categorically that the manner in which the place was given back is perfectly a-ok and therefore officially declared legitimate by us in our officially designated capacity to do so". At what point did they ask? How many laps to go then? Does Race Control actually have the authority to say 'okay'? What does okay really mean? Seems that this is a grey area and probably needs better definition so that drivers KNOW unambiguously what to do. For example, it is hard enough getting into the slipstream of the car in front, so I would argue if you are in the slipstream then you are in a zone of advantage beyond simply trailing the car in front. To me, to give back the place should involve being out of the slipstream. Simple. And Lewis would not have been in front and then dropping back into the slipstream if he had not cut the corner. So, sorry Lewis, you got an advantage by cutting the corner; you dropped into the slipstream but would not have ben able to do so if you had not been in front after cutting the corner; and being in the slipstream is an advantage that you used.
I hope they win the appeal because it was completely unjustified. But I don't think it stands a chance.
Problem is that Race control are not the stewards. Like the said "They believed". It takes a bit of time for the stewards to send it in. That is why there are no drive through or stop and go penalties in the last 5 laps. I would cause for too hurried a decision and confusion all over the place.
Many are saying that because they saw what happened after that with Kimi going out of the race all together. But what if Kimi stayed in it only to come in 2nd by a car length and everything was let stand? What then? Ill bet that most would be crying foul then. The move was against the rules period. You cant weight in what happened afterwards.
I don't care what happened after the fact. If I would I could actually dream up a penalty against Kimi for driving into Hamilton at the hair pin. The problem is different: 1) If we start handing out penalties for how clean a pass/repass was done, we are crossing the threshold of figure skating and the like where judges decide the outcome based on their personal view. 2) Don't change racing results. If you want to hand out a penalty, do a drive through (I realize there was no time here) or give a grid penalty for the following race. But do not change a podium result. Ever. It totally destroys the excitement because now no race is ever final. I want racing, not court cases. Bottom line: They're messing with the results to keep the championship interesting and everybody knows it. Any interview I read with anybody who has the slightest knowledge about F1 comes to the same conclusion. This was total BS.
No we are not handing out penalties for clean passes. The penalty was handed out because he cheated and its on video for all to see. Only Lewis Hamilton supporters dont want to see it. If they gave Lewis a grid penalty for the next race you and others would still be screaming. How can it totaly destroy the excitement? The excitement was had at the time of the race and namely the first lap and the last 3. Nobody new of the penalty till hours later. BTW I watched the video many times and I dont see Lewis and Kimi touching. I also dont see Lewis hitting the brakes. Its funny how Lewis smokes his tires many times going into corners during the race but never braked hard enough to smoke them in this corner. If you take off your anti-Ferrari glasses you would see the same thing. Again its BS to many because we all know the Kimi would have given it up in that lap somewhere. But if the track was dry then everyone would be screaming that Kimi got robbed because Lewis drove off the track on purpose. Anyway 5 more interesting races. We will see some scripting. Dont scream at the stewards. Scream at Lewis for being impatient. Lewis should never have left himself open to the script.
Lewis did not 'cheat'. Many luminaries of the sport (like Lauda..ex Ferrari driver I might add) are also commenting that this was a travesty. Lewis is a racing driver, he ended up in front after the chicane, he immediately let Kimi past again....and by doing so lost his speed advantage(this is proven by telemetry). He was however in a much grippier and faster car, so he then immediately accelerated back and repassed Kimi. That is called racing for Pete's sake. The biggest complaint in F1 is that it does not have enough passing. We witness one of the classic duels in F1 history and 3 nameless apparatchiks in suits spoil and defile the result. If you Ferrari fans want your wins that way...you're welcome to them. This is one of the worst decisions in F1 history, and regardless of which team you support, you can't be a true racing fan and abide by this decision. F1 is effectively dead if this stands.
1) He cut a corner, he broke the rules, he should be punished. The rules are actually forgiving by letting the person off by letting the other driver back thru... so how is it a threshold? 2) Point out one race, that the stewards have given a drive through within the same lap on the infringement? The drivers rarely go in straight away, they have a time period to react to the call, just like Kova decided to pit for tyres 1st then take the pen. Even if they called it, Lewis would of prob done it on the last lap to gain maximum advantage and it would of only been a 10s penalty if that since the start/finish is half way down the pits which brings us back to square one... Grid penalties for this type of situation are just plain stupid. A better solution is not have the podium results till it gets resolved but then of course we can't delay the broadcast! Bottom line is Lewis cut a corner. He wasn't in the lead for 10laps and Kimi just outbraked him into the corner forcing him out, he was trying to overtake Kimi, saw he wasn't successful and instead of yielding he took an advantage.
I disagree. He never backed off and was accelerating the whole way. Kimi got in front only at the very last part of a short straight. Lewis had an unfair advantage. The problem IMO is: if Race Control said it was okay they should stick to it.
+100000 +1000000 +100000 Not my words, but it sums it up to me: Since the closing of the gap will boost interest in Ferrari's home grand prix at Monza this coming Sunday, the decision will also do nothing to dispel the widespread belief that the sport's rulebook is written not just in Italian but in the Modenese dialect. Examples of judgments favouring Ferrari are now too numerous to be dismissed. Most recently, why was a fine against the team the only punishment for Massa's dangerous exit from the pits during the grand prix in Valencia, allowing him to keep his victory, when Bruno Senna, doing exactly the same thing in the GP2 race at Spa, was given a drive-through penalty that cost him a win? It is impossible to avoid the conclusion that if the roles of Hamilton and Raikkonen had been reversed on Sunday, no action would have been taken against the Ferrari driver. It is not necessary to be a fan of Hamilton or the McLaren team, or to harbour a dislike of Ferrari, to see that here is a miscarriage of justice entirely consistent with formula one's current code of practice, in which the rules mean whatever the men in charge want them to mean. It is no coincidence the sport is gradually moving towards wide-eyed new audiences in Russia, China, India and the Arab countries, where formula one means Ferrari and governments are willing to spend their people's money on it, and away from its traditional base in Europe, where - as this weekend's outcry demonstrated - the fans know what they are looking at and can tell when they are being treated like idiots. Dregs rise to the top and until such a time they have been removed, F1 sucks IMO , How can anyone root for any team or driver now, without a cynical view. I don't normally agree with Pete PSK, I even said to him, the other week, cut F1 some slack it's better now. How wrong I was, he was right!! it died a long time ago, you have to be initiated into the Society for sucker's to watch F1 now.
Bingo. This gives the FIA a reserve points swing to apply as needed to make the last races "suspenseful". The appeal will likely be scheduled for "as needed to adjust the championship". But how entertaining are races, when the results are rewritten after the fact? Remember '07, when we didn't know who won the WDC until they reviewed the fuel temperatures? Gah. If I want to see this stuff, I'd tune into CourtTV, not Speed Channel. Notice that Fox has no "Corporate Boardroom Battles" "reality TV" program. Potential ratings: zero.
Wrong. Lewis cut the corner and ended up in front of Kimi. It is clear that between the bus stop and La Source Lewis ends up behind Kimi as he moves from Kimi's left, around the BACK of Kimi's car to the left. To do this he must have lifted and by going from one side of the track to the other around the back of Kimi's car he clearly demonstrated that he was behind Kimi before they got to La Source. Regarding race control; Ron Dennis said that they had checked with Charlie Whiting that the manoeuvre was legal and it was Charlie who assured them it was. The stewards then saw it differently. Another question to throw in the mix: Ferrari say they didn't complain, but the stewards decided by themselves to investigate this incident. Should the stewards only be called upon to make a decision if a team lodges an official complaint?
Let's just say there are two opposing points of view on this matter. Even Whiting and the marshals have different views, as you state as well: I think it's best to leave it to the stewards. There already have been too many complaints by teams in the past. There's no love lost between Ferrari and McLaren. BTW why wasn't Bourdais penalised for ramming Trulli from behind in the first corner? Trulli had an amazing start only to see it ruined by Bourdais.
Exactly, Pete it's a joke end off, the whole thing is ruined period, how can anyone give any credabilty to the sport anymore is beyond me. Unless their head is so far buried in the sand it's suit's there cause. I STRESS I would think this way if it had happened to any driver not just Hamilton. The men in suits decide who wins, not the drivers.
Come on Steve. You are feeling this way because it was Lewis. I can see you being pissed if Lewis was not guilty clear cut and dry but he was not. All you have to do is ask yourself why he did not brake? Why his tires never smoked before bailing off the track? The first thing one does is brake before leaving the track. You have to come to grips with the fact that Lewis blew it. I know the FIA, stewards ect ect want to keep the season close but Lewis was guilty here and he gave them an excuse to put him back. If it makes you feel any better. I am almost certain that this season is scripted to go to Lewis and if I could bring myself to betting against my team (like another on here ) I would take Lewis for the wdc.
