McLaren going broke...again (2024 version) ? | FerrariChat

McLaren going broke...again (2024 version) ?

Discussion in 'McLarenChat.com' started by LightGuy, Mar 18, 2024.

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  1. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 4, 2004
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    Cant find it now but recently read that the Mid-east owners are tired of injecting money into McLaren.
    Rumor was Tesla was thinking about them, Hard to believe.
     
  2. traimpz348

    traimpz348 Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2004
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    Yeah that report came out a few days ago. Mumtalakat recapitalized the company in December with the expectation of McLaren going public in two to three years. So much dysfunction. Now they want out. Sometimes I think McLaren could be Ferrari 2.0 - a similar heritage, lots of racing DNA - they build amazing road cars... but as we all know Ferrari is the ultimate anomaly. Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston Martin, etc, etc have been tossed from owner to owner. Tesla makes 0 sense to me. Toyota makes more sense.

    Ferrari figured out their build-quality issues in the late 90's - that being said they're not perfect. They still have annoying things happen. McLaren's are produced in such low quantities in comparison. Leasing exotics cars is still relatively new (late 90's early 2000's it became more common). Almost all McLaren quality issues boil down to annoying things that need to be addressed that can take the car off the road. If you purchased the car with the intent of keeping it, that down time is less painful. But if you're paying X amount of dollars for 24 months and it's in the shop 2 or 3 months, that's a lot of money for a broken car. Add that to the fact that everyone is a YouTube star adds to that poor build-quality perception.

    If you're cross shopping an 296 or F8, 750s, Artura, Huracan, 911 GT(2,3) RS - that's amazing company to be in. McLaren has reached parity at a minimum, exceeds other marks in some ways- all in about 10 years. That's an astonishing accomplishment. The company operates at such a high level in some areas and a complete **** show in others. Whatever happens I hope McLaren secures a long, viable future for itself.
     
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  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    I can see Tesla taking them. Move them to 100% electric. Use their best engineers, remarkable factory, and also be in racing.

    Create a 2nd top tier brand on top of Tesla.

    I'm not saying its going to happen but I can see why Tesla would want them.

    BMW would also be a good fit. There's a relationship going back to the F1 road car. BMW took over Rolls and has done a pretty good job maintaining the brand and the factory.

    Sometimes change is good.
     
  4. Geely will acquire Mclaren.
     
  5. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    6,176
    If true, they might as well shut the doors down now. A Chinese exotic company will have zero credibility in the eyes of purchasers. I’m not sure even a mainstream Japanese company could turn them around in the eyes of high end consumers. Wish Ford was in better financial shape, they can run a British company.
     
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  6. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    isnt geely busy enough destroying lotus? do they really need another british sports car making generic electric sedans and suvs?
     
  7. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I've read the "best" Mclarens were after their initial teething problems but still when they were flush in cash and enthusiasm.
    The 650S and 675LT.
    In my mind the 675LT is a 488 Pista while the 650S is "just" a 488.
    A 650S is N/A California money. A 675LT is a bargain.
    Its the uncertainty and reputation that keeps me away.
    The idea of a Carbon fibre tub in a road car is alluring.
     
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  8. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    The Bahraini owners of McLaren have hired bankers to find a buyer for their stake in the British car maker after investors were forced to pump it with £1.5bn in funding to prop it up in the wake of the pandemic.

    Mumtalakat, Bahrain’s sovereign wealth fund with a 50pc holding in McLaren Group, is said to have drafted in advisers at JP Morgan following an order from King Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa to stem losses.

    It follows repeated cash calls on investors from the company, known for its supercars, the Sunday Times reported.

    Mumtalakat has owned a major stake in McLaren since 2007. It was forced to help fund a £300m emergency cash infusion to the car maker in 2020 as its finances were devastated by the Covid pandemic.

    Another £1bn was then raised the following year through measures including a sale-and-leaseback of its headquarters in Woking, the part-sale of the company’s heritage car collection and a fundraising involving Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund.

    The Saudis were then bought out by Mumtalakat two years later, cementing the fund’s hold over the company.

    However, the Bahrainis are now said to be losing patience and want to exit the business gradually.

    They have hired JP Morgan to find a new “strategic partner” with expertise in making electric vehicles, as McLaren looks towards an electrified future.

    This new partner could begin by taking a minority stake before gradually increasing it.

    Mumtalakat is said to have instructed JP Morgan to approach potential Chinese buyers, which have already swooped on rival luxury brands such as Lotus.

    On Sunday, a spokesman for McLaren did not deny the report but refused to comment on details.

    He said: “As we have said previously, we are open to partnership discussions and maintain regular dialogue with potential strategic technology partners and suppliers, including some other OEMs [original equipment manufacturers].

    “However, we will not discuss the specifics of any such discussions.”

    Last year McLaren admitted it was reliant on more investment from its Bahraini owners to stay afloat after losses at the business more than doubled.

    Losses at the carmaker swelled to £349m in 2022, accounts published in October showed, compared to £135m in 2021.

    That equated to a deficit of almost £140,000 per car produced as costs crept up and deliveries stalled.

    The company then received £80m from Mumtalakat in November, followed by another £30m in February.

    Its cash crunch has been long in the making, after the company was hit by the pandemic, a global shortage in semiconductors and more recently delays to deliveries of its Artura hybrid supercar, which suffered quality control issues.

    McLaren’s racing business, founded in 1963, is no longer officially part of the group after a consortium of private investors took control in December 2020.
     
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  9. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    6,176
    Ugh, might as well take Macca off my list for a next year purchase….shame as a used 720s was way ahead of everything else. Maybe it’s time to buy my first Ferrari….
     
  10. Told you! :D
     
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  11. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    As I say, owning a Ferrari is like eating peanuts. You can't stop with just one!
     
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  12. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
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    My meager income disagrees…..LOL

    It would be a retirement gift to myself, so there won’t be a second one.
     
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  13. That's what we all said at first ...
     
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  14. piratepress

    piratepress Formula Junior

    May 18, 2009
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    Unfortunately, I see no good coming of this merger....
     
  15. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Why would you not buy a used 720 because of ownership changes in Mclaren corporate?
     
  16. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    6,176
    Correct, as in this case it is clear the corporation is not succeeding, going from one monetary crisis to the next....now fully owned by a foreign government with no experience managing an exotic car company. I'm just pretty conservative on things where I put a big chunk of money in. For you, buying a $250k car is like me buying a Toyota Camry so I understand your POV, wish I had that luxury.

    In my case, I'm not buying anything for 18 months so I have time to change my mind....but as of now it has gone from the leader in the clubhouse to off the list.
     
    LightGuy likes this.
  17. I don't think management is going to change. The Saudis have been and will continue to be silent investors.

    And there's no way Mclaren is GOOB. It has too much R&D and propriety tech for the market to let that happen. Even if the Saudis bail, some auto conglomerate (like Geely , Stellantis, BMW, etc.) will gobble it up.

    All that said, Mclaren's problem lies with its C-Suite folks and poor management, not with its tech and automotive know-how.

    Mclaren's issue isn't one of technology, but of management.
     
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  18. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    The same group has had partial ownership for years. They now have full ownership. So nothing is going to change. And still
    Not sure how that affects a used car but buy what you feel comfortable with.
     
  19. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    6,176
    I would be concerned with things outside the actual car in the garage that could be affected by changing ownership policies, such as:

    1. Support of spare parts
    2. Losing my local dealership (which happened once already - Houston)
    3. Revising the warranty program in a detrimental way (because I wouldn't own one without)
    4. Seeing increased depreciation

    I wouldn't have any of these concerns with the other high end sportscar manufacturers (Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche......Maserati to a lesser extent).
     
  20. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    6,176
    Unfortunately, I have first hand experience with "silent" owners - They are only silent until they choose not to be. In this case, the ownership is from Bahrain not KSA. Been to Bahrain? I have....small island chain.

    Agree with you management has been the issue with McLaren.

    Like I said, time to change my mind, but for now will examine other options.
     
  21. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Just stick with Ferrari. It's all good. No need to justify why you dont want Mclaren. You dont want to buy a Mclaren and that should be good enough. If you feel "safer" buying a Ferrari, enjoy the Ferrari. Im certainly not here to convince you otherwise- I obviously happen to like Mclaren and have no issues with the changes in ownership. It doesn't affect my day to day interaction with the brand at all.
     
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  22. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    6,176
    Hope that it stays that way for you, you are a good ambassador for the brand.
     
  23. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Im just not emotional about it. I do like the brand cause they make (in my humble opinion) some of the most engaging, fun to drive cars right now. That doesn't mean other brands dont make amazing cars either. But the carbon tub, the power of my 765lt spider, the looks etc I really enjoy and appreciate.

    But if the brand scares you for whatever reason, just buy what you are comfortable with. It's all about having fun and enjoying the experience.
     
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