Mclaren Honda heading for a divorce for 2018

Exactly

 

The bit from espn that's not in the f1i article:

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/21889975/toto-wolff-mercedes-wanted-supply-engines-mclaren

"Red Bull has often pointed to the power deficit between its Renault engines and the class-leading Mercedes power units as the reason for its struggles since 2014, but Wolff says it is that kind of attitude that puts Mercedes off supplying the team from Milton Keynes.

"It is exactly because they are saying it like this and undermining their current partner that they are not having one!" he added. "In Formula One, like everywhere else in life -- be it your private life or business life -- it's about compromise and acknowledging your partner's strengths and weaknesses and helping each other out.

"That is very much the culture we have at Mercedes and that has made us successful in the last few years. Respect is a super important part of our values and this is why we have chosen the partners we have."

 

So merc can make hundreds of these engines to put in their Project one super car, but couldn’t find the capacity to make 3 for McLaren? Right.....

 

Toto is probably BS'ng to an extent, but it's legit from a supply chain and operations point of view. The Project One manufacture is completely separate from the race team. To supply Mclaren and maintain parity they'd have needed to increase the race manufacturing and supply capacity by 33%. And not just them, their suppliers too and all the way down the supply network. It's no joke when you're talking about the rate of development and lead times these guys work at. Then there's the issue of providing engineering and operations support to McLaren. You can't just snap your fingers and make this happen in 6 months. It's a big reason why STR had to give up their Renault supply for the deal to happen.

 

^^^ I agree with a lot of what you say. But it is also worth remembering that engine requirements have been cut by 25% for all teams so there is the capacity. And let’s also remember the Brawn example where they (and Merc) managed to swap from Honda to merc power over winter successfully enough to win the championship

 

They would have reallocated resources since the 3 per season was already in the pipeline. But you're right about Brawn; they took them on with almost no notice. F1 business environment was also very different back then, and the teams, particularly the mfrs, were operating with significant excess back then. Under normal circumstances it's not easy suddenly increase capacity.

 

Exactly

 

Merc:

Don't blame us if McLaren is running a Renault. They are too slow and too whiny.

 

Don’t know what you’ve got against McLaren but a proven fact is this. The McLaren chassis was definitely competitive.

 

Hey, I've got a good idea Mclaren !
Instead of relying on other peoples hand outs and cast offs, and moaning about how crap they are, why don't you produce your own engine ?

Now you've set yourself up as a car manufacturer, why don't you do as your main rival does, the one aspire to beat (Ferrari) and make your own racing engines !
After all, you already produce your own road car engines (all be it made by Ilmor/Ricardo).

Just a thought.................

 

$$$$$$$

 

More like:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!

 

Alonso's salary?

 

Merc said they were TOO SLOW to make decisions to get this deal done

 

^^^ McLaren gave Honda too long and stayed too loyal to them. That was a fundamental mistake. Can’t say I blame them though. The vast majority believed that Honda would turn it round faster than this. It’s a shame it didn’t work out.

 

Here is the one thing that everyone keeps forgetting.

McLaren told Honda how to package the engine. And the last major change this year by Honda was done at the request of McLaren to get better chassis performance.

Yes, Honda dropped the ball and didn't perform. But McLaren also was part of the equation for failure. Honda did a major re-engineering of the engine this year because McLaren wanted it. They were late for testing, it was not well done, and they took most of the season just trying to sort it out.

I don't excuse Honda. But they were a TEAM. Honda was making a bespoke engine for them. It wasn't like "here's your engine, now do something with it".

 

Let’s also not forget that Honda are the engine designer not McLaren. It was their responsibility to handle requests from McLaren within the design limits of their PU. If they were so incompetent to just bend over and take orders from McLaren without realising the implications then that’s their issue. They failed again.

By the way, none of this would matter if the PU generates the required power, but it didn’t. It is the least powerful unit on the grid by a country mile. That has nothing to do with ‘packaging’ and everything to do with fundamental engineering.

 

I don't disagree. But McLaren was also part of the reason for the disaster of last year. Honda was responsible but McLaren gave them the specs they wanted and had to work around.

 

I agree with that.

 

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/14265692/ron-dennis-told-christian-horner-suck-up

Flash back!

 

Yes. McLaren gave Honda the specs. Do we know for fact that Honda Fulfilled those specs? I highly doubt that McLaren specified an underpowered and unreliable engine.

 

Again you miss the point. The engineers at Honda had to work around McLaren's specs and chassis design. That makes McLaren PART of the engine development process.

I don't excuse Honda's failure but McLaren was has part of the responsibility. This was not a "plug and play" engine. It was designed around McLaren's wishes and restrictions.

Most have forgotten that.

 

Looking bright for Toro Rosso already...Honda may go back to 2017 unit if their 2018 unit isn't up to the job....can't make this **** up!

 

That would be the most hilarious thing to happen in F1 - possibly ever.