Mclaren Honda heading for a divorce for 2018

MAY 18, 2017

Teams unhappy amid Mercedes-Honda cooperation rumours



Two F1 teams have admitted their opposition amid rumours Mercedes is preparing to help Honda finally get up to speed in formula one.

The rumour has been taking shape in recent weeks, and in Barcelona it emerged that the Austrian company Avl might also get involved to help Honda finally end its reliability and performance crisis.

Mercedes chief Toto Wolff, however, is not confirming the rumblings.

"Honda is a large and prestigious company," he told Spain's El Mundo Deportivo.

"They're in a difficult situation now but I'm sure they will find a way out and do not need our help."

But amid the rumblings, there are already signs that some of Mercedes and Honda's rivals are not happy with the plan.

Renault-powered Red Bull's Dr Helmut Marko said: "I don't know if it's true, but I don't think it's a good idea.

"There are already very strict rules about cooperation with regards to the chassis."

And amid a sea of 'no comments' elsewhere, Bob Fernley admitted that as Force India's deputy boss, he would not be happy if Mercedes started working with Honda.

"As a team that's not only paid for its (Mercedes) engines but contributed to the development of them, I would certainly be very negative towards sharing that technology with another team that is a competitor of ours," he said.

 

I don't know what the hell McLaren have been doing with their decision making. Rather than always being a customer team for engines, they should've been building their own for a while (especially after their road car division got running). Buy Cosworth, have them make the engines, and eventually change the name to McLaren. Basically what Mercedes did with Ilmor. The fact they rely on such a critical piece to engineers that they don't have full control over was their downfall.

I'm all for outsourcing when needed to save costs, but chassis, aero, and engines seems like way too important pieces to have others do for you the way you want. There's no way McLaren can't afford a company like Cosworth.

 

Looking at it in 20/20 hindsight, it looks like a pretty bad deal. But at the time I bet it looked like McLaren's saving grace

Honda (which had made great F1 turbo engines before) would give Mac FREE engines.

McLaren would have them exclusively for 10 years (basically, like their own in-house engine developer and supplier without the cost)

Honda would pay for 1/2 of the driver's salaries.

Honda would be doing a major world-wide marketing campaign that would let McLaren get more more money from other sponsors.


The only reason why this hasn't worked out is Honda is screwing up. But would any of us have guessed that 4 years ago? I don't think so.

 

I honestly didn't think it would be this bad, but I didn't think it would bring McLaren back to the glory days like the Honda-powered MP4/4. It was mainly due to Honda's efforts in the V10 era and how they had a lot of resources and consistently under performed. I was planning on it being a repeat of that. Obviously it's a lot worse than that.

I still think if they, or any other team, actually wants to actually win in today's F1, they are better off making their own engines and controlling everything in-house. Free engines and the rest are a nice part of the deal, but to get that plus a dominant engine I think will always be a "too good to be true" deal.

 

No one thought it would be this bad.

 

The costs are simply too high with this formula for teams to develop their own engines. The now discontinued token system discouraged any interested parties.

 

McLaren had issues with their car before they switched to Honda power units... I am not saying that Honda is not to blame, but what is the actual problem? Honda has been working on these power units for many years now, as have other teams, the problems should have been resolved by now, after all they have smart people working on it.

 

Entire different cars now.

They had issues earlier in the season when it didn't look to handle so well, but think that's been remedied...certainly looked alright in Spain on that one lap!

The problems at Mclaren are now 95% because of the engine. Had they had a working engine They'd be up with Williams/Force india at the very least, if not bothering Red Bull at this point.

 

All the other drivers say the car is quick in the corners ... it just needs more power.

Pete

 

What's interesting is that its NEVER been good.

Since the very first tests of the first engine 3 years ago there were rumors of major problems.

Never have we heard a good word about this program.

 

True but its hard to tell. Mac was the last of the Mercedes powered cars before the switch. Every Mercedes powered car was faster than them. They were having problems.

 

Yep, they've gone from bad to worse. 2016 was looking slightly better, but now they're somehow below 2016 power levels.

They where ahead of Force India so not strictly true. However, I do agree things weren't going well.

But that car is old hat now, 3 years on, entire new car with entire new focus, so the the problems from then don't relate to today.

 

Exactly !

None of the signing parties in this deal could imagine such a huge failure, and years wasted.

 

BGO

Not sure Honda will get it right. Three years and close to a billion dollars and they are a back marker.

Because they were living in the past.

 

Honda are hard at work,using state of the art technology, trying to get the engine weight distribution correct for 2018...
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If Honda had had this year's PU in the first year of this formula, they would still be dead last because of its lack of reliability.

 

the guy walking in front of the donkey looks so much like Alonzo.....

 

Well, the donkey is behind Alonso, so this picture is correct.

I had a Honda boat anchor once. I had to get rid of it because it took too long to reach the bottom.

 

Alonso's worst nightmare:

McLaren announces its staying with Honda

McLaren 'committed' to Honda | PlanetF1 : PlanetF1

 

I don't know who made that decision, but that could be the final nail in McLaren F1's coffin. Someone who believes in miracles, surely.

Another year with poor performance will keep this team at the back of the field.

It will be very difficult to climb back from that rut, IMO.

 

With no title sponsor present, and no signs of anyone wanting to become a title sponsor, McLaren have no choice but to stick with Honda - Without Honda, they can't afford to be in F1 right now!

 

Correct. It's their best option.

 

I'm pretty sure behind the scene Honda are underwriting ALL of McLaren's
losses until Honda's performance and reliability are on par with top 3 just IMO

 

Yep. I honestly don't know what some of you are smoking but I suggest you back off it a bit ... McLaren Honda were never going to split. Honda IS McLaren's sponsor. No Honda and no McLaren in F1 any more.

Also Alonso has no where to go, and the Indy 500 race is NOT to show he is still competitive and to open up another drive at another team. Everybody knows he is still damn fast. This has never been questioned.

The purpose was to keep Alonso at McLaren Honda. The sole reason. If McLaren loose Alonso, it is all over for McLaren ... will make Williams look like a front running team
Pete