The best way to shut the door is to close it to within 6 inches so your not fighting against the ram,then a flick of the wrist and its shut,like all things its only practice,just finding the right weight and you dont have to slam it
To quote andy c "thats just B------ks" - there were no retail cars then worldwide so who's a fantasist ?
Andy as you say it is more confusing I said the problem may be the dealer is not organized. That may be true but as you point out if the manufacturer is new they may also be unorganized at least at that time. The dealer is the one who called me from out of no where. Oh well it does not matter there are many fine cars to chose from. Thank you for sharing that infro. Most likely he got my name from this forum. As I understand it the subscriber portion gives the names of known car collectors. I am sure it is or would be a great car! As I was thinking and rereading your comments, I have never seen one at the exotic cars & coffee I go to Lee
Lee, I know you felt like your 458 didn't have that much feel and soul from your prior posts, and you preferred the manual shift of your previous Ferrari's. If you feel that way about the 458, count your self lucky not getting the McLaren, because from what I understand the McLaren is much more sanitized and lacks any thing of the passion of the 458.
Hi Tony great to hear from you. Your statement is how I feel. I have grown to like the 458 more with time but I still miss the manual and the taut feel of the older cars. But the car looks awesome and has great sound. It does have subdued passion! Thank you for your statement on the "sanitized" aspect of the McLaren. So I feel even more lucky .
Lee, Great to hear from you as well. I am glad you are enjoying the 458, regarding the McLaren, I went to the premier here at the Museum of Modern Art in Newport Beach about 7 months ago, and the designer Frank Stephenson and some other guys from McLaren were there. I have to say IMHO the 458 is a much better looking car, no disrespect to McLaren. All the European Magazines (including UK based) have mentioned that the McLaren lacks passion and sound, two things that the 458 has in abundance.
I currently own a 458 and drove the 12C today, as I remain intrigued by it. The demonstrator is pearl white and I have to say it looked considerably better than the other silver cars I had previously seen in person. I think the car is sensitive to what color is chosen and again despite being underwhelmed by the original cars I had seen I am now decidedly on the side that thinks the 12C has its own appealing look. Drove the car on some back roads and highways and I was impressed but not fully moved. The steering is excellent, well weighted and the wheel itself is great, the right size and thickness. The ride quality is very good as everyone has already said although I honestly did not feel that it is significantly better than the 458. It is perhaps more compliant but its not exactly gliding over the rough stuff. Either way, that is not a determining factor for me as I like my sports cars on the stiffer side. The acceleration is strong, but again I was expecting a little more seat of the pants difference based on the reviews. Its hard to say whether it is significantly better than the 458, and perhaps it is due to the fact that there is quite little drama when putting the pedal down. The car may well be accelerating faster than the 458 but it is doing it so effortlessly that you don't get the hair raising feeling. This car has the steel brakes and they felt fine, no complaints. Seems like steel is the way to go vs the ceramics. The gearbox also is good, does what it is supposed to but I would have wanted to have more aggressive snap in the process. It is a little too similar to the GTR experience, very fast but also a little too smooth. The 458 gearbox is better, in race mode especially. This probably could be tuned through software as they are doing with the 458 update. Finally, the engine. This to me is where the 458 really stands above. The 12C engine just does not have the immediacy and urgency of the 458 naturally aspirated unit. The turbo lag is contained, but it is definitely there, and if you are accustomed to the type of engine that just responds instantly and where it feels like the throttle pedal has nothing between it and the engine, I think the 12C is a little disappointing. It has plenty of power and torque, low emissions, etc but it just doesn't have a world-class character. I feel like the engine is just another component of the 12C. In the 458 or my CGT or a GT3 RS, the engine defines the car. The exhaust note was adequate, but sounded more corvette than exotic. A supercar has to have a memorable engine, and this one isn't. I think this is the weak spot in the 12C proposition and I wish that McLaren would have gone a different route rather than forced induction. Overall, I liked the 12C a lot, but a little sadly it doesn't deliver the drama or experience required for me to part with that kind of money. If I didn't have a 458 it would be an obvious buy. But to trade in my 458 for the 12C is another proposition altogether and there wasn't enough of a difference in experience to warrant it at this time. Undoubtedly a well put together car and a highly usable one but it doesn't raise the hairs on the neck enough on regular roads for my purposes (which are weekend jaunts, not daily driving). I can totally see the appeal though for a certain type of buyer. If there were a little more anger in the car I would love to have an orange one. Perhaps in a subsequent stripped out version .. Very impressive effort, there is a lot to like in this car. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I agree. And, I'm not bashing the 12C but when you see it in white and the 458 in white, you really see how much more interesting the 458 is visually. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes. The 12C is generic mid engine sports car. It could have been the art for a tire ad. The 458 is different.
The 458 in white is quite beautiful, I have to say it is probably one of the most beautiful cars in that color.
Very well put Superquant,the 12c is what defines Mclaren,and the 458 is what defines ferrari,if they were similar what would be the point,for what i want in a car if they had made a 458,i would have bought a 458 as it couldnt be surpassed,so they have gone a different route,and at this price point its good for eveyone,manufacturers can no longer sit on their laurels.
Agree. Wondering how you would opine on a side by side comparison on a White Aventador v White 458? Very different cars on two spectrum. Elegance and beauty go to 458 and angular, edgy and raw go to Aventador. Perhaps the MP4 is slotted in the middle?
Rear shot below. I think the comments on the aesthetics are too harsh. The car has its own presence and I think it looks good. It doesn't have all the widgets and features of the 458 exterior but there is also something to be said about a very clean look. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I didn't think White would work on the MP4-12C, but it does. Also your comments about the silver not doing the car justice seems to be spot on.
The designer of this car came from the movie set from "Star Wars" (the first one back in the 80's) This car looks like a "star wars soldier" should be driving it. Almost early 1980-ish, but better. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The 12C definitely has some beautiful angles. I believe that it looks quite nice in white. When it comes to design, the 458 is in a class of its own. It's one of the most beautiful cars ever produced by any manufacturer.
I would echo that 458 is the most beautiful modern and contemporary super car amongst any car makers for the past 2 decades. It is clean, minimalist yet very very modern. It provides a stack contrast to the more retro style of the McLaren which more utilizes a classic super car design from the 80s with the side vents and inlets. It has a retro flavor to it but so does SLS.
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/0/0d/Storm-CHRON.jpg Now that you mentioned it, it does have a Star War ISH flavor to it. Wouldn't be surprised if he walks out of it next Halloween . All else aside, a very respectable design that pays homage to the Golden Era of the World when Wall Street and Main Street all feel happier.
Trincap and Superquant Thanks for the well balanced reports. Andy C You continue to be one of the best, most balanced, informed, contributors to the McLaren site (for obvius reasons since you have both and can speak factually, but I suspect also because you give the cars credit for their specific attributes). I also am a current 458 owner, and a future owner of a McLaren. I had my test drive a few weeks back. Overall, a very good car. The outside looks are just fine with me. Definitely unique and clean. Interior is definitely well done but bland and stark. (I ordered a red interior to try to liven it up a bit). Unfortunately, I chose a silver exterior. My reaction on driving the car was similar to yours. Good car, rides/handles well, noticeable turbo lag, (especially coming from the immediate response of a 458), gear shifting is good but 458 feels better. I also concluded that it felt more like a stylish 911 Turbo (which I used to have) - ie. fast, efficient, very driveable, BUT it left me somewhat unsatisfied. Certainly not tingling like I feel whenever I drive the 458 (even 1 year and 6000 miles later). Since I am sucker for speed and horsepower, I decided to take the McLaren anyways when it arrives, but if I had driven the car before I ordered it, I probably would either not have ordered it, or at least waited for the calibrations to to settle a bit. Andy, I am real glad to hear though, that with familiarity, it gets better, and I am looking forward to driving it extensively when it arrives in spring.
Thanks for the pic, he looks great. All kidding aside, I do like the look of the rear of this car, and white does it well, however the front does not do it for me. I think the GT version looks better minus the antenas. may the force be with you Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
