Remarkably, they have achieved that in 5 years. Forget about the F1 and the Mercedes SLR that were produced in very small quantities, McLaren really started to produce sport cars under its own name in 2011. Now McLaren is becoming a big player in this field.
I guess you need to add a 4th fan-boy. I LOVE Mclaren. Whats not to like? How does this diminish Ferrari. I LOVE Ferrari. And Lamborghini, Porsche, Aston Martin.... Get a grip. Its ok to have a favorite. To pick sides, etc. But its not cool to be stupid. And stupid things HAVE BEEN said here on this thread. Doesnt have to continue. OK, off the box..peace Its a Ferrari enthusiest site. Check
As far as I understand, and I don't mind to be corrected, McLaren seems to sell their models not in continuous production, but in limited series (500 or maybe 1000) . Hence the many models that are on their catalogue. Once a series is nearly completed, they will launch another one to replace it. Sometimes series overlap too. For example the 650 series was succeeded by the 675LT, itself followed by the 675LT spider, etc... I think that's a clever way of doing things. First, they can better control their production costs by manufacturing in batch. Second, with a limited supply, owners feel gratified that their cars will keep their value. As yearly production will go towards 5000, I don't know if that business model will still be valid in future.
No worries, sometimes its hard to tell what is and what is not sometimes. My post should have had some smiley faces or something its great to have options, I like a lot of cars really. Where was I yesterday, driving my F40 with an FCA event and wearing my Ferrari hat. Waving to a group of vintage porches coming the other way, wishing I was in mine. Too bad I cant be in two places at the same time.
Speaking of engines (back on P14), I hear it will be a 4.0. Thats surprising, but if so looking forward to it.
I have four main issues with Mac. One: to me, of course, they all look the same or very similar to the point that I don't care to study how they are different. Very subjective but not my cup of tea. Two: I don't like the use of plastic for intake manifolds and other pieces. Leave your space age theory out as I just think its a lesser way to go than sand cast metal (leaving the disappointing 488 out here). Three: forced induction instead of NA and all that goes with it (leaving the 488 out here again). Four: the foot wells are too cramped for me from the uniform tub design. Common on most tubs no matter the OEM. Their cars are fast and still pretty much hand made so kudos for that. Ferrari has a much more special feel, sound and character but that is subjective as well but a common belief here.
Ok ginge, then leave it up to me, a Ferrari(s) owner, Ferrari fanboy and Mclaren admirer to educate you about the world of marketing, relationships and respect. You seem either very young, very unknowledgeable or just simply immature for whatever your age is, so I don't mean to insult you about your obvious ignorance. It's not your fault, you are just in much need of desperate help before you get worse and fall off the edge of sanity. Believe me, none of us want that to happen to you. I follow this Peleton guy on a number of forums and he ranks as the most genuinely knowledgeable person in whatever topic he discusses. There are too few of these kind of honest people around, the closest thing to a "telling it how it really is" journalist as a nonjournalist can be. And that's not just my opinion, it's a well known fact among OEMs and journalists like Chris Harris and Georg Kacher who speak very highly of him. His social media following and postings are very diverse and respected. Many OEMs wine, dine and gift lesser influential people AND journalists for the sake of establishing relationships and for the sake of a few published lines of their unbiased opinions of their products - flights and hotels included. I myself have been a "victim" of that kind of experience many times over from Koenigsegg, Pagani, Ferrari and Lotus. For a person like you to criticise an individual of Peleton's stature reeks of raw envy. Free flight? A mere pittance for a company that deals in the billions. A gift? I read it was the designer of the car who walked up to him and gave him the tie he was wearing at the moment and also gave him one of the 2 Mclaren pins off his jacket lapel. Who in their right mind would NOT want to work for an exciting company like Mclaren? He has email addresses of some of the guys who work there? Maybe it's because he's a great guy. I for one can't wait to hopefully meet him personally one day. Now ginge, go dig a deep hole in the dirt somewhere and stick your head, and the rest of you, in it, and wait for me to email you to resurface please. Just kidding. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Your arguments are just dumb. That's the point. You couldn't even respond to the question I asked because you knew you'd contradict yourself.
Couldn't agree more re Point One and Two. As for Point Three, sadly it appears to be the way the automotive world is going. No experience re Point 4. Agree with the rest of your comments.
Justifiable arguments. However, forced induction represents the most advanced version of a pure combustion engine, the last stage before an electronic/electrified power unit. In this regard I see McLaren currently in a clear advantage against all other car producer. McLaren had the possibility to execute a green field approach, they hadn't to respect Decades of history. In my opinion you can see and you can feel that in their products. From the begin of their car production they made a clear commitment in state of the art (or rather leading) high tech solutions you can use for a super car. Without any compromises, without a turbo engine which try to simulate a NA-engine. Cars with a clear statement in the leadership in performance. A McLaren is simply more uncompromising and more consequent than for example the newest product from Ferrari, the 488 GTB. With an neutral view, with a focus on high tech usage and uncompromising sports car production; McLaren is superior to all other car producers. Yes, I like the McLaren approach.
Turbocharging? When it comes to turbocharging, there is Porsche and then everyone else. "Green field approach"? Check out the Porsche endurance racer. that is where the tech is going.
McLaren would never choose turbo if they had an alternative (remember the F1?) and neither would Ferrari for that matter. But...the world is a different place to when the F1 and even the 458 were launched. So turbo it is. You cannot currently deliver the power required and meet Euro VI emissions plus avoid the EU fleet emissions penalty with n/a engines - compression ratios required to get higher power from n/a engines are too high. Even F1 complained about going back to turbo, but Bernie wanted F1 to be relevant by becoming greener and showcasing technology that would eventually find its way into roads cars. Drivers weren't into it, and neither were most of the teams.
Yep. Be happy we have turbo v8s for now. Porsche is dominating the WEC with a hybrid v4 turbo-that is where it is all going. Gotta get while the getting is good. If I had the $ I'd buy the f12 TDF- the middle finger to political correctness and I'd daily drive a dodge hell cat.
Fair enough but its not just about emissions. Its also what customers want. We want faster, lighter and better handling cars. I think we can all agree our most beloved of manufacturers are getting a bit fat. A turbocharged 675LT has a 100 more HP than a 458 Speciale and weighs 100 lbs less. The NA V8 has run its course. Its never going to have 800HP on pump gas. The speciale can barely make 550 HP as it is. A smaller turbo motor that sounds great, weighs less and performs like a rocket. There has been a lot of advances in turbo tech within the last couple years. Things like lag, throttle response and yes even the sound are better than their NA counterparts. All that green stuff, could care less My 675LT is powered by recycled dinosaurs
The days of the "atmospheric" engines are numbered anyway, and ALL surviving internal; combustion engines will have to adopt forced induction in future. Why? Because of increasingly tight emission control regulations. That's why. Forced induction is the only way to keep up with low emission regulations. So, enjoy the last non-turbo V12 Ferrari, the last atmo Lamborghini, and the last NA Corvette whilst you can ...
I suspect that we will see n/a cars again. Mated to an electric power plant, like the 918. That car is impressive in many ways. When you dig into the tech, they have achieved the CO2 output on the EU test similar to a PHEV (that's got to annoy the lobbyists) while at the same time delivering a drive system that could be tuned for a four wheel drive or a more rear wheel drive bias, depending on the manufacturer, or if the manufacturer so wishes, depending on the driver. Mated to that they have made their V8 engine even more effficient by having it drive no ancillaries at all - those are now driven by the electric motors, allowing the V8 to sound great, be instantaneous in response and more efficient. The ICE is much better at delivering higher output more efficiently, the electric motor is better and more efficient at instant torque and stop/start driving. Combining the two is an ideal scenario in a sports car, except one thing; weight. This will improve over the coming years though, as technology improves. Not everyone will use a n/a electric and many will choose turbo electric, because the electric motor can be used to overcome the lag, for instance the McLaren P1. I prefer the Porsche idea and in terms of powertrain technology, think the 918 is more sophisticated than the P1, whose design brief was more about being track focused than the 'see how far we can go making a low emissions supercar' 918. The fact that the 918 is so quick given its weight is quite something. By the way, it is physically impossible for a turbo engine to have less lag than a n/a engine. You could theoretically make it feel like it has no lag (P1 tries fairly successfully it seems to do this using the electric motor - the torque fill idea) but the turbo is still delivering lag. By definition it has to because it is boosting a future ignition from the effects of a previous one. If it is not doing that it is not a turbo. Sorry for the OT post. Edit: "physically impossible", unless there is lag built into the n/a engine. This can be done by the ECU controlled throttle mapping. Why would a manufacturer do this? Emissions mainly, but at the Toyota Corolla level, not really at the Ferrari 458 level. Also driveability might be a reason. It is not turbo lag in the same sense, but can be made to feel like it. The general point still stands though.
Classic, just to rehash on your earlier post, I have to agree with you on point 2. Likewise, I cannot stand the perfluoroelastomer Kalrez plastic watchband on my Richard Mille RM-025 that I shelled out almost 600,000 Euros for (670,260 bucks) on my last trip to Europe. I wonder why they use such an antiquated and cheap material for it...any idea? Did you know that the best dentists in the world are the Romanians and Bulgarians in the former East Block? I went there 2 years ago to have my upper 2 teeth replaced (they were cracked) and I insisted on gold because, like you, I hate all those new fangled polymers, plastics, whatever, that, although they work better, simply do not look expensive. I guess we just belong to the past, long live carburettors and leaded gas! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're back again Iggy? What's not to like about that Mac's groundbreaking stylisation? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good post Lukeylikey, thank you. I think the conclusion is allowed that all the different drive units and concepts have their pro and cons. Therefore in my opinion it is pointless to argue which engine or drive unit is better, a V12 N/A, a V8tt, a high revving engine, a torque monster, a hybrid or a fully electric drive (you name it); there are so many masterpieces of engine construction available. At the very end the whole package is decisive (...and what each for itself is looking). I always decide for a complete package. When I'm looking for a rear/mid engine car with best possible performance capabilities and a superior driving behavior I will never compare a F12 with a McLaren. McLaren is strongly focussed to build the best performing rear/mid engine cars, not more and not less. In this regard McLaren is unbeatable. And if we come back now to the P14; with the new 4.0 liter engine, the advanced aerodynamics and the advanced carbon chassis concept this car will set new standards, this is out of question. The rear looks great, the front is still under construction, the proportions remain highly dynamic. Not everyone must love the McLaren design, they are not in the fashion business, McLaren is convincing with facts and with superior driving dynamics.
For a thread that started with a couple of average photos it has brought out some fantastic discussion not only on the looks but on automotive philosophy with substantial insider and technical information! The Fchat knowledge base and passion continues to impress!! Just have to ignore the legion of intellect free comments "I love it/hate it because its a new McLaren". Totally agree that turbo has been imposed rather than chosen and that is a pity... the only way I can see NA making a comeback is if the unicorn of continuously variable valve timing is ever found... even then there is still that compression ratio issue... Thanks very much for all your posts in this thread too!!
