McLaren P14 spy shots

While the turbos may have been imposed, the hp numbers and therefore paper specs which most people buy exoitics on mean others sorta have to follow.

However we see at porche there will still be a core NA offering to those who you know just like the pleasure and skill of driving.

the reality is a sportscar has to offer a special experience and many are devolving into hey look at me styling, hellacious acceleration and pro driven paper specs. lets see if Maclaren can get the fusion right this time.

 

Your first paragraph makes a lot of sense to me. At the end of the day, we may all want our idea of perfection in every area of the car, but usually, since designers are having to accommodate all sorts of legislation around the world, different tastes, different road environments etc. the cars they end up producing are framed by compromises of one sort or another. Therefore, decide on what is good and what is not as a package, based on your own particular preferences. Sounds like good common sense to me!

Its why cars from similarly competent manufacturers can rarely be concluded to be better than the other or vice versa. They're just different and you buy what you like.

For that reason, I may disagree with the last sentence of your second paragraph, but that is semantics.

As for your final para, and the P14, McLaren are good. Good enough for us to be confident that the car will be great to drive. It won't be everyone's preference but good enough to take its place among the industry's front runners. If outright speed is your thing, it will probably be at the very front, but not everyone thinks that way of course.

It is a little too subjective to conclude that "McLaren convince with superior driving dynamics". I preferred the speed of the 12C to the 458, I liked the carbon tub and the feel of the car. So I bought one. The 458 had a more delicate and subtle feel to it though. The 675 is an outstanding achievement but at quite a high price point and I wouldn't have one over my Speciale.

So, I think the P14 will be brilliant. I won't cancel my 488 order in favour of one, and I also think the appearance will be a little challenging for me if the pictures so far are anything to go by. Your point about evaluating cars in their entirety, against an individual's own specific set of requirements, would, as far as I'm concerned, be a suitable conclusion to the discussion.

 

Hey I really like Mclkaren.

Their engines are different the same way various chevy small blocks are different.

the tub, some variations in sill etc, still basicaly the same layout, yeah the p1 altered the block to have some electirc motors. tese engines are the same just like a 350 Gt, miura, Ct are the same engine.

Nothing wrong with that its honing a product.

The best kept secret is the 570s, essentialy a 675 for 100k less with different/betetr styling and less Hp so the electronics reign it in less and yeah slightly different suspension spec, but underneath essentialy the same car. Imo the 570 all the car one needs, visualy great whereas the 488 is what Koning would have done to a 458.

 

At your own peril then I would offer to mention. How long before your 488 is to be delivered? If it's after the launch of the p14 and you have the opportunity to see the real thing (at the Geneva show?) and it happens to light your fire, both performance-wise and style-wise (let's just pretend here that it does do that for you), will you still be leaving your money with the Ferrari? If so, why?

 

Who the hype?

 

I agree, and the most logical system is that explored by ferrari on the v12. The motor is tuned for best max Hp and an electric motor flywheel fills in the lower down Tq gaps. Such a system could even be used to make a turbo feel close to NA, it need not even add a lot of weight.

Part of th reason for turbos in exotics is not emissions or fuel economy, those isseus are surmountable in a NA motor for an exotic. But what drives turbos is we are seeing the escalation of the paper spec wars. There is even a thread on fchat about bogus ferrari hp numbers.

it all boils down to irrrelevant 1.4 mile or 1/2 mile acceleration numbers and 0-60. You simply cant get the same numbers in NA if you are up against a competitors turbo motor of even slightly smaller displacement.

i think we can see that for ferrari to compete against Mclaren in the paper race with the 458 sucessor required turbos.

Now maybe one day maturity will reign, and cars superlative to drive on track(which is the only place to really use them) will be the requirement, then we may see a retrun to lighetr low weight and really metereable power from a NA motor. Porche does this in limited series, but then if you want the "fastest" proche you buy a turbo, if you want the best its a Gt3 GT4 or 911 R even thought they re all "slower"

Ill bet the the difference in laptimes between a 570s and a 675 boils down to aero suspension and tires, not Hp. I seriusly doubt more than a handful of drivers can fully exploit 650 hp on track let alone 570,

Last time I saw a 570 on track, once the driver figured out how to fully defeat the traction system, he said it would spin the tires at 120 mph. More power clearly not the answer otehr than for marketing reasons, and a few yahoos who think launch control and getting to 200mph on runway is the measure of a fast car.

So hopefully Mcalren hones the new car to have attributes of great driveability and feedback, to go with all that hp which will be inevitable.
lets see if its something as fun to drive as an F1, or even a P1, which the guys who have tried the 3 hypercars say is th ebst to drive on track.

 

Because I like them and that's allowed?


If you want a more detailed answer it is because...

I prefer the way Ferrari do their powertrains - the 488 may limit torque but the quid pro quo is the more natural feeling in its power delivery which I like. The V12 in the FF I own is sublime too. I like the look of the 488 and Ferrari's in general. I have always been treated well by them, in fact very well. The experience from McLaren was more than acceptable but not as polished or 'immersive'. The residual is better. I also enjoy not having to pay for the first 7 years' servicing (I know its in the purchase price but that already seems competitive so I feel like it is 'free'). I like being able to spec the car at the factory and I like eating their pasta and drinking their wine! I love the passion in the brand and the history it has, and most of all....I really like the way their cars drive!

 

Yes, IMHO the GT is just a much better looking car because of the flowing lines to the rear. I'm glad to hear a new engine is finally being used. I'm assuming by "new" they actually mean new design and not just a 75% different components but basically the same.

 

Fair'nuff. Just remember to maker sure the pasta's always fresh and the wine's not corked. : ) I almost died when I last ate at the Real Fini hotel in Modena. And the Canalgrande hotel chef surely attempted to poison me twice. Mama Rosella at the Ristorante Montana didn't cook my seafood spaghetti long enough, the shrimps in it were still crawling around in agony when she served it to me. By the way, what's the story of Ferrari ripping off their horse from somewhere?


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The horse came from a ww1 fighter plane squadron insignia.

As to food in Italy, there are tourist places which are really crappy, so crappy you couldnt get such crappy pasta at olive garden. Then there is the rest which is superlative.

 

In the game of the supercar producers McLaren plays the role of the challenger, Ferrari is the incumbent hero. And if we are honest, both play their role perfectly. A small digression: what would be a football game with only one team on the field? Nothing. Eleven boring guys silly standing around in a stadium without an audience. Even if they can play superior, nobody cares for it.

I've been thinking about what you've written and I tried to put myself in your position. My conclusion: you're probably right with everything you write.

At the end only the joy of each owner counts. And I'm sure, your joy about your 488 GTB is exactly the same as my joy about my McLaren. Yes, I drove the 488 GTB, and yes, I know why many of my colleagues have ordered one. They cannot understand my decision. Who is right??

I like your attitude Lukeylikey!

 

Meh; yes Porsche do make turbos but they don't put them into their sports cars. And in case you're thinking what about a 911 Turbo S, thats not a sports car thats just a GT (I have one its my DD). Its heavy and the engine is in the wrong place. Nevertheless it only putting out 580HP. Porsche did add turbos to the cayman but its dumbed down to just a measly 350HP. For now, Porsche's sports cars are the GT3 and GT3RS and are both NA.

The turbo V8s from Ferrari and McLaren are both putting out about 660HP and I suspect the P14 will be in the 725-750 range.

 

Oh I'm sure they could. Keep in mind the 6-cyl 911 turbo is the same displacement as the 570/650; both are 3.8L. I would imagine they could get the same HP/Liter as everyone else. Currently Porsche are putting out 152HP/Liter where Ferrari and McLaren are putting out 175HP/Liter so they got a way to go.

 

In defence of Porsche, I would say that their cars are usually more DD than Ferrari or McLaren. OK, you can call them GT if you want, but for me a 911 derivative is a hell of a lot more practical than most of its rivals. That doesn't detract of the fast that a Carrera Turbo is a very fast piece of kit that would shame a few so-called supercars.
I toured Europe in past decades with my wife and 2 small children + luggage in 911s. I cannot imagine trying that in a 488 or a 650!!!

Also, "the engine is in the wrong place", maybe, but that's the attraction in a Porsche of the 911 variety; they have still kept their originality. I very much regretted that the Boxter and Cayman adopted the mid-engine layout. Porsche gave up one of its trademarks.
Also, the rear engine give tremendous traction.
Finally, the flat engine design is, in my opinion, the best there is for lowering the centre of gravity, and I am constantly surprised that, apart from Subaru, no other manufacturer has copied what is a superior concept.

As long a Porsche makes rear-engine flat engines, it can count me as a customer, although I was gutted when they gave up the air-cooled system.

 

WW1 fighter plane insignia??? Whose? How did that happen???


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Agree with everything, 911 is a fantastic car which is why I have been buying them for many years. I call it the swiss (sic) army knife of cars, it does everything well and if I had to choose one and only one car it would be a 911 for a long list of reasons.

Having said all that, it simply does not compare to a modern sportscar from the likes of Ferrari or Mclaren. I'm not talking about the GT3, but rather the 911 turbo (in any form). Its too heavy and the AWD is needed to prevent massive oversteer but otherwise does not add to the driving experience. It gets the job done but its not 'fun' in the sense a mid-engine RWD McLaren, it doesn't beg you to turn the TC off, hoon around and tune your skills.

Don't get me wrong I love my 911 turbo, its a very fast and very practical DD and I will keep buying them as long as they make them. It has immense mechanical grip but balance is too far back (if you push it too hard or make a mistake it will spin). Try a camp4 ice driving class if you want to test it without destroying your own car and you'll see what I mean.

If you want to experience a real low center gravity this is where the McLaren will most surely shine. The engine is probably the lowest and most center of any car made today. Thats the reason the manifold complaint was made earlier, its because what you are looking at is not a manifold at all; rather its just an airbox that feeds the manifold thats a foot lower than what you see through the glass (and it is aluminum btw you just can't see it).

 

Respectfully, what am I seeing at 8:54 into this 650S engine assembly video? Didn't notice the valve covers at 8:24 before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUFzjzqkHeI

Also, here is the factory engine project director describing the use of plastic for the intake manifold, valve covers, etc. They describe it as weight savings with plastic usually used in high volume production engines. Then there is something at the end about only taking 45 minutes to build an engine. I sincerely hope this is not adopted by Ferrari.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bMkWFEo3gM

 

Thats interesting, I've never seen that manifold before. I know the ones on my cars are aluminum as I have had engine mods done to my cars and I've seen them. If you google 650s engine images you will see what I mean.

However I wouldn't care if they were plastic, its not a visible part, I don't care about them any more than I would a water pump or a starter motor. All I care is they are lightweight, reliable and cost effective so if that's what it takes then so be it. If the engine were visible I could see a concern but since its not I don't worry about it.

 

Many owners feel the way you do and I respect that opinion. However, I believe materials matter in an exotic. Spending upwards of $0.5M on a car is inherently not cost effective nor has any real logic that can be applied. I expect every inch of the vehicle to be as captivating as possible especially the engine. A front-mid mounted Ferrari NA V12 engine is not visible until you open the hood. Then hold on if you are a true enthusiast! Massive, brilliant, beautiful, artwork. Honestly, if the intakes or valve covers were made of the same stuff as a Kia or Subaru I would pass. Nothing to see there. There is nothing exotic about plastic to me. If engine weight is an issue then serve up some hand cast aluminum, titanium and carbon fiber. But that's just me and I know others feel differently. Best.

 

The whole chassis and body of the car is made of plastic resin ...

It is not the material it is what it looks like.
Pete

 

When Ferrari have no choice but to put a single engine in every single model that they make because of financial restrictions, we should worry. Until then, we should enjoy that they are not restricted to that like other smaller 'loss making' companies.

Chirp.

 

Oh dear, what the heck is going on now here now gingey82? Is it time to start worrying yet? Is our ship sinking slowly? Please advise!
The Ferrari GTC4Lusso T ditches the V12 and AWD for a turbo V8 and rear drive - Autoblog