McLaren P14 spy shots

There's plenty of difference, like, every significant ine rear of the front wheel arch! The TR's many straight lines, emphasising that 180 deg V12, its bulk and flat, wide structure, yet still recognisably the same family as the generally much curvier and softer 348.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, merely explain why I'm disappointed with the P14, because I don't see this same clarity. If you see different, so be it.
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Thanks. I hope I can be wowed by the final car. I'll certainly be at Geneva.

 

C'mon Robin, they're as similar as these 2 guys...



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I'd also like to thank him for his effort. Maybe he just hasn't taken off his sun shades since 1st seeing those Mclaren images. Lots of new tech things in those pics to debate about.


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Care to expand....

 

The ceiling lights will be the only pretty thing on that Mclaren stand if previous designs are anything to go by.

 

You took offense to my comment that saying all McLarens look the same is lazy observation even though I wasn't addressing any of your posts. If you don't think they all look the same then you shouldn't take offense to my comment. I stand by my assertion that claiming two dissimilar items are indistinguishable is either intellectual laziness or simple ignorance.

I was out driving around with some guys last week, two of whom also have 12Cs. We were putzing along at 5mph in an area of heavy pedestrian traffic and I heard a woman say "Oh look, are those Corvettes??" and her husband dismissively responded "No honey, those are Ferraris. In this case I suspect both people are simply not car enthusiasts and therefore can't tell the difference between a Corvette, Ferrari, and a McLaren. But I would like to think car guys could tell the difference between a 570 and a 12C, as the differences are significant.

Maybe in time they'll develop a front engined GT or a big sport sedan that look entirely different than the current trio, but for a company that's only been around a few years I think McLaren is doing just fine.

 

noone1.

650S looks exciting on the street. Low and wide, with a low cowl and great driving Imax visibilty. McLaren, more than any car brand, looks better in real life than pictures. Just saw one in Bangkok Paragon Mall, metallic grey, people taking pics. It's about US$1 mil. Days later seeing another 650s next to a 430 I noticed how much the lower the windshield of the 650s is.

650S, 458, 488, all look good to me.

Huracan looks OK but can be a lot better since it's got the Lambo design language to it's advantage(hope they do a major facelift soon). The high cowl, small eyes parts really looks inferior to the elegant Gallardo.
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Sure. In general your comments above are very professional and well expressed and show that you have experience in the OEM automotive sector. But what I detest, and blame many current design disasters on, is the unfortunate meddling of those "other" departments, like yours, in the decision making of the design selection process.
Furthermore, your design assessments of P14, of which I'm not a fan of either by the way, show your unprofessionalism and gall to critique in detail something with a complete lack of knowledge or design professionalism. You may be good at what you do or have done but I for one would never be an owner of a car designed by a committee of unprofessional designers. Don't blame it on different company structures, design leaders should be strong minded individuals able to convince management to believe in their work. As confirmation of that, look at those strongly individual and characterful design bosses who led during the heydays of American automotive design and the tremendous successes of the European coachbuilders. Current corporate meddling has killed that era with boring and watered down designs and too many "Yes Men" in top level design positions. And please don't say that your critiques are based on your opinions. Because if that is the reason, then it's no wonder that the company(s) you worked for and where you were able to influence the final design probably never produced any groundbreaking designs. I'm looking forward too to the first 3D viewing of this new Mclaren, for the sole purpose of seeing what will surely be a groundbreaking design. Who knows, it might be good enough to get me out of my 458...



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I'd believe you if only their designs would just stop winning international design awards and continuous high praise. Which previous designs are you referring to? Also ginge, if you've been staring too long at pretty ceiling lights, it's no wonder your eyes are shot and useless.


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...and Milli Vanilli won a grammy.

 

It's obvious that car makers use aesthetic to create a brand identity, and new models are usually an evolution of previous ones.

I think it would be strange to throw away a good design when you reach one, and try something else, just for the sake of being completely different. That would confuse the public, and mostly the customers of a particular brand.

Ferraris tend to share some DNA, just like the Lamborghinis have theirs.
Porsche has been tweaking the same shape since the 911, back in early 60s!
Most of the Porsche today are an evolution of the original design.

So, no surprise that McLaren is trying to create a visual brand identity.
Some McLaren are more pleasing to the eyes than others, but they share the same DNA, in my opinion.
I prefer the 570GT best of all. That looks a classy design to me.

 

Its so funny.

If you post pics of the FF on Fchat people tear IT apart.

If you say the McLaren's are looking too similar they tear YOU apart.

 

Earth to ginge, come in please.


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Absolutely - All manufactures are aware that a vast majority of consumers are NOT design aficionados
and have a short attention span so brand identity is much more important than wining design awards

 

I dotn get your ferrari brand identity arguement. Where is the identity between a 308 and 348 or a boxer and a Tr, otehr thna soem basiuc proportiosn the form is very different. Its like saying a 57 caddy and a 90 caprice are the same because they are body on frame pushrod sold axle cars.

Yes I get that a 355 is a follow on from a 348 they are essentialy a restyle and mechanical upgrade of the same car. But then a 360 is completly different again, and the 458 and 360/430 different language again.

Thats what i think some are saying about Ferrari, its always pushing some boundaries, its designes can be hit or miss Avant garde or not. Even the supercars, 288 to F40 very different, F50 dfferent again, Enzo different again, laferrari different again.

Sometimes as with the 550 and 456 they reach into the back catalogue, but even there they then move on again.

Maclkren, one tub, one motor, its like variations of a 911, which is a different way to build a brand. Given that the tub is good, and one can within reason completly restyle it, its really more like platform sharing.

 

McLaren has one tub one engine? You would be doing yourself a favor to educate yourself a bit before making comments like that.

Its like saying all houses are the same because they have 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms.

650, 570, p1, all different tubs. And p14 different yet again.

Same with engines.

And lets be frank, nobody knows or cares if a 430 frame is the same as a 458 frame which is same as 488 frame.

Same with engines. Ferrari v8s are derivatives of the previous Ferrari v8. Same with v12s. Nobody builds an engine from scratch anymore. And why should they, when the previous engine was was awesome and amazing, you don't just throw that away and start over, you build on it.

 

Quite a lot of assumption about what I do in there, I only gave very brief details. Also, by your definition there is no good or bad design, if other 'departments' should not be allowed, or are not capable of critiquing and adding value - you seem to be saying they should not 'meddle' because they are not capable, yet they often know what sells, and often they know that part better than designers. Usually, designers crave feedback from other areas of the business - ones that they trust. And guess what, ones that they don't trust, aren't usually invited to comment and certainly aren't listened to. Those critiquing might not ultimately be correct but their views can be helpful in challenging things. This kind of tension is critical in the design process.

Designers are from one country, but cars have to be relevant in many countries, with differing tastes. For instance, in Asia, the three box design is very popular. In Europe it is a few percentage points of the market only. Therefore, buyers of cars from other countries around the world are usually consulted about their views.

Designers working in isolation? It's not how car companies work, nor should they. There are many other considerations than simply what an individual designer wants. At the end of the day, designs get signed off by the CEO. And they are usually accountants, engineers or salesmen and almost never designers.

The 'pure' design from yesteryear is pure because the market was less demanding and legislation was far freer.

Ps: I thought you were going to elaborate on the groundbreaking features of the P14 from your post....

 

Isn't the thing about Ferrari, Lamborghini or Porsche that, even when they change their design direction significantly, the cars are still recognisably from that brand? For instance, moving from 355 to 360 was a big change, reflecting the new aluminium Alcoa tub as opposed to the 355's space frame construction. Very different design language but even without the badges, the 360 could only be a Ferrari.

Same for the Gallardo. That was a brand new model line, but unmistakably a Lamborghini.

Also, I dare say those (including me) who feel somewhat critical of the P14, would have cause to have been critical of various designs from the other three manufacturers in the past - for example, in my case, Ferrari 400, which I thought did not display much Ferrari DNA at all.

I take Noone's point about the length of life of McLaren and if they launch a few more models that makes sense of the P14. I could imagine that Lamborghini Miura owners would have reeled a bit at the 'new' Countach and may have said some of the same things. The Countach has informed almost every Lamborghini that has come after it.

I still don't really see the P14 in that same light though.

 

To some degree I agree. The 360 rear lights are there and clearly mark the car as a Ferrari, but there is not too much else I can overtly point to. And, the same is true for the P14 too - the rear light arrangement is clearly McLaren and linked to both the P1 and the 570.

When the 360 was launched, there were only two brands it realistically could have been - Ferrari or Lamborghini, and it wasn't the latter. I do think I could have picked the 360 out as a Ferrari, even without the badge and in green. Impossible to know for sure.

Even if you're right, is now really the time for McLaren to be taking a different design direction, having barely established their existing look? Quite a lot of what McLaren do; model programme, design, power, tech, seems a bit too reactive and frenetic. Perhaps a bit of settling down, into a rhythm, would help them.

I don't really blame them - starting a new premium sports brand in this day and age is a really tough challenge. It does leave an impression of too many models based from the same platform, in the same layout, covering much of the same marketspace, with different pricing though.

 

Very much agree. All they needed was 2 models and they did not need to update or add new models every 6 months.

Unlike say Toyota, McLaren could have run their models a lot longer. They need to calm down and make clear statements the first time, not deliver and then update like they got it wrong.

Quite honestly I do not know what they are trying to achieve. One super expensive F1/P1 every 5 years and a cheaper model every other 5 years is all the needed ... but is there really room for another manufacturer?
Pete

 

So the gist of this is which? That Mclarens look too similar to each other or that they should/shouldn't progress their design language, or all of the above?