Mclaren post record sales figures for the 3rd year in a row.

3340 (2017) - 3286 (2016) = 54 Only 54 more units? That's not a great increase is it?

I love this as well "McLaren has at least 12 new cars still on the way as part of its 2016 Track22 plan" - that should help resale as usual...

Just quoting numbers from article. No 'veils' here.

 

Not huge growth for sure but also not bad for a relatively new company. They will need more products and build superior options to whats out there as they have a ways to go to catch up to the others in their class. I don't think that this is unreasonable and I doubt they will be anywhere close to Ferrari in terms of production for a long long time. They have a good following but lots of work to do big picture.

 

Oh I'm not saying their volume is bad and of course will not be F car rate. Was surprised at only 54 more. Just a comment not a criticism. I do understand they have to pump out new models to hit their numbers--I do get it, but also think that is why they are stuck in this perpetual depreciation state (I know you hate that) but don't know what else they expect if they release as much as they do.

I'll say it again, since it got lost in my last post, I like Mac and if there were a local dealer there would be one parked in my garage (some year old model). So just to clear record.

I wish them continued success and wish they'd get on expanding their dealer network.

 

You read what you wanted to read from that news release.

The launch cars of 720s were delivered between August and October with most of the customer spec'd cars started to really get going at the end of October through December. The 2016 numbers included 675 coupes/spiders and 650 sales. It mentioned how the sales numbers were skewed a bit for 2017 because of the late deliveries of the 720s.

A good gamesmanship with mclaren too. They tend to manage the sales right near the end of the year. If they see that they don't have the numbers they want then they start to fly in cars to get them to customers by 12/31. A lot of cars showed up at the end of 2016 at dealers which were rushed out by mclaren to get into customer hands. They really had to catch up in delivering 720s by the end of this year. They wouldn't have exceeded 2016 numbers due to 720s delays. Nothing for them to really sell in this segment in 2017.

 

That certainly makes sense. I just read the numbers and didn't have this other context, so I appreciate you filling in those pieces.

 

Whats interesting is that they produce a fraction of what Ferrari & Lambo produce yet they get blasted for diluting the product.

 

Its a boutique Car company that is turning the industry in that market on its ear.
When this three seater comes out, It will be in hyper car world .
I'm happy they are growing BUT NOT THAT MUCH.
A Ferrari will always be in our life times the ultimate number one recognized automobile name in the world.but they are moving into LARGE VOLUMEstatus and so could water down the brand a hair. IMHO.
To have a five year old company compete let alone beat the rivals is just neat to watch as a car enthusiast.
Ive said it before , I admired McLaren but it didn't interest me, the 720 s make the company a household name to all little boys and girls.
Love Ferrari and always will , but once you drive the 720s , something will happen to you, it happened to everyone else who did.
Enjoy
GTJOEY1314

 

In my opinion Ferrari has 3 models with limited buyers. They sell these cars to people who want a 488 or don't know the score. Ferrari is just like any car now and there is no collect ability to any of the production cars. If you are the "one" who gets a special car, then you are in the club and can make money. I think they are on a course of losing business to Lambo and Mclaren. I know a few who got out and I am one as well. They are not who they think they are and will find out as time goes on. I have ordered a 720s and sold my 488. I really didn't like the car anyway. Too tame at normal driving.

 

Congrats on the order and you make some good points indeed.

 

I'm curious where the trip goes with McLaren.

They are tempting to exhaust a specific sub-segment within the sports car segment with a vast number of different "models" (lightweight and compact rear/mid-engine 2-seaters with a (540hp upwards) V8 tt engine, available as spider and coupe, positioned in a price range between 200k and 400k). Additionally they try to stimulate their offering with special editions (the "LT" line, until know "limited" (see the 675 debacle)). Finally, from the 540C up to the 720S, abstractly considered it is always the same, they have more or less one "product line".

Strictly speaking, McLaren has already overtaken Ferrari. They sell more cars than Ferrari in this sub-segment, Ferrari is much more exclusive.

Maybe McLaren will fail because they have started to compete against themself?
Anyway, I'm curious about the comparisons between the 590LT and the 720S.

 

Interesting point of view, in the US we have only 3 models today, 570s, 570GT (basically the same car) and 720. 4 if you count the 570 spider. I doubt many cross shop the 570 series and the 720 but there might be a few. In comparison Porsche has ~35 variants of the 911 and does exceptionally well. Lamborghini on the other hand similar to the Mac but now as an over priced SUV and with the backing of VW I think will continue to evolve. Ferrari sells many more 488's than McLaren sells of the 570 and 720 combined. The same goes for the 488 vs Huracan.

I think the days of exclusivity are over for Ferrari mainly because the demand is still there and they have no issue producing cars to meet this demand. The cars that many of us want are difficult to get so we go in another direction or buy their mass produced version. Big advantage for Ferrari are all of the models none of which IMO compete with each other. I am curious how the next model of the 488 will be delivered, it might be a car that interests me.

 

What exactly is "exclusivity"? What is the definition, what are the thresholds? In the end it is crucial that a company can sell its products to the calculated prices and planned quantities. And Ferrari has no problems to enforce its prices and quantities.

I think we see the competition between McLaren and Ferrari way too narrow. Two companies in a completely different life cycle with much more differences than the data sheets of the individual products may suggest.

 

Yes exclusivity can be somewhat subjective, you can argue at these price points they are all exclusive to some extent. Ferrari is and will be for the foreseeable future the 800lb gorilla in this market, it just will be. They are an incredible marketing machine with a passionate following however for some of us who aren't tied to a single brand will consider other options.

Do you not believe Ferrari is taking notice of the 720 in particular? What if you said 500 of the 720 buyers would have been 488 buyers if the 720 didn't exist? How much of profit loss is that, ~$40M? Not to mention the hit to the dealers. If 500 more people wanted 488's they could have them no problem. Differences aside there is an impact to the business.

 

Look at used Ferrari prices on a 488. I was offered 60k from sticker for a 700 mile car that was a 2017 from the dealer on a trade. Far from what I expected. Worse on all the other models. Market is small on people who own a car for a year and lose 60k or more. That's for the popular car!

 

Yellow Compass has one on here for $269K and no takers. My dealer has a $330K MSRP car sitting for 6 to 8 months. I offered them $280K before I bought my car and they didn't take it. I figured at that price it would be a great deal. Ended up spending a bunch more for the 720 - many others doing the same for their own reasons.

 

Don't tell Mac buyers that...they don't like to hear it.

 

I'm sure Ferrari is taking notice of the 720S, a great peace of technology, Ferrari has always watched the market well. But, as long as Ferrari will reach the planned 488 production figures, McLaren can sell as many 720S as they want.

However, in this thread I try not to compare individual products, but the two brands. You wrote it, Ferrari is an incredible marketing machine, but that's not all. They have a completely different history, enjoy a much higher brand loyalty (unfortunately), are much more popular in the used car market, have the stronger distribution network, have a more solid product mix, are integrated into a large corporation.
(and I write this as a McLaren fan)

And McLaren? Yes, right now we're celebrating the outstanding 720S, but look closer. In Switzerland we already have more 720S (new and used ones) on the web than 650S. Many 675LT's (also more than 650S) are as screwed down at the dealer and the prices are falling. Additionally the market is flooded with the for McLaren so important 570S (coupe and spider), nobody can tell me that this product line runs great (sales vs. budget figures). At the same time, McLaren is stressing the still very fresh and sensitive customer base again and again with further product announcements. In their hyper car segment now they break up the P1 into two limited products, the Senna and the BP23. Clever? I hope they do not destroy themselves in their overeagerness, in their stress for attention and occupying of every little niche (which they try to create by themselves). I think something is becoming more and more obvious, McLaren did not invent the instrument "marketing mix".

 

We will have to revisit this as time moves on and see how things shake out. McLaren (I think) is still figuring it out but they have Ferrari to learn from. As long as they put out premier products they will sell, if they figure out how to increase revenue without diluting the product then they may attract even more buyers.

Also, interesting how the markets differ in the US from Switzerland. There are only a few used 720's available most asking over list price for now. 675s and 650's back on the market as I think many of those are being traded on the 720 but prices have held since the initial drop. I compare the 570 to the mass produced 911, this is their bread and butter car so I dont use it as a marker for product demand. They still sell incredibly well here just not in the $200K+ range which was probably too high to begin with but at ~$165k-175K they dont have much of an issue moving them.