I have. Read the October issue of BusinessF1 magazine. If you refer to the 750+ pages document, you're actually right. Because that was not detailed enough to replicate the entire brake system. Stepney had to provide tons of additional information to Coughlan so they could copy it 1 to 1. He provided them with Autocad 3D renderings of the brake system including detailed instructions in how to best install it in the car.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071213195034.shtml It's finally over. Bring on 2008!
But it was never used in the 2007 car. But, McLaren were found to be on the verge of something similar (if not exact) on the 2008 car. Which apparently they have not employed. I suspect that's only because of the investigation. The apology from McLaren and their commitment to halt development on the systems in question seems to have been enough for the FIA and surprisingly Max. What also has come about is the initial investigation done by McLaren (who employed the same investigative team that also investigated Renault ) was a p*ss poor job. It appears it amounted to... Neighbor(Ferrari): Your kid broke my window with his baseball. Parent(Ron): Did you break his window!?! Son(McLaren employees): Uhhhh.... No. Parent(Ron): Timmy is this true? Timmy(investigative team): Is it true? (Son nods his head) Yes it's true. Parent(Ron): There you have it! They didn't do it. They would never do such a thing and children never lie to their parents. Especially mine. Human nature rarely ever changes.
So do I, and put in perspective with the rest Renault are as guilty but thats ok yeh.. thats my point I dont have a big hang up with Mc nor Renault nor Ron Dennis and I havn't lost my sight of fair play with whoever it maybe under the cosh.
Cute, but not quite what happened: Top managers and engineers from McLaren were investigated by a 3rd party legal firm about their involvement in Stepneygate. This was done in addition to FIA's investigation and the 1st hearing. It was done on behalf of Dennis. They all lied to the lawyers. Based on that Ron claimed being innocent. And that's why it came as a shock to him to hear the same managers retract these statements in the 2nd hearing.
Fair play is the name of the game. My love for F1 is bigger than my love for Ferrari (and sometimes this shows when I criticize Ferrari and people accuse me of being not a Tifosi yadayadayada) or any other team. Blatant cheating ought to be punished and the people thrown out. It's what is done with steroids abuse in the Olympics or the TdF and it should be done with racing teams. If Ferrari gets caught stealing from another team, they ought to pay for that as well.
You know how much I dislike Ron Dennis, but I would not want to see McLaren excluded from the championship. Start them with negative points, or do not allow them to get any points, but we race fans deserve to watch a full grid that includes Hamilton. I still doubt he is another Schumacher/Senna, but he, and his new teammate will make the series more exciting. In the McLaren apology letter to the FIA and Ferrari, (www.autosport.com) they have agreed to remove or cease development of the items obviously taken from Ferrari's dossier. That means the McLaren will start the 2008 season "behind the 8 ball", they are now forced to comeup with their own designs. Between the fine, the embarrassment, and now the admission of guilt, the points penalty seems sufficient. The one thing that still bothers me, is the jerks at Mercedes have remained silent and they own a big piece of McLaren. I would like to see an apology from them.
You're right I should have given the son a baseball bat and glove. Agreed. I think Dennis really thought they weren't lying to him. If everyone had fessed up when Stepney approached them this would have been a blip on the radar. If they had told Dennis the truth prior to the 1st hearing (or after) it would have been ugly but it would have been over and dealt with before the end of the season. Having said all that I do believe Renault is as guilty as McLaren and should face the same fine and points deduction or McLaren should have theirs rescinded.
Yes I do, in her series she does quite well, better than 80% of the other drivers, but she certainly is not a Schumacher/Senna either. Nor is she a Hamilton, but after one season, to suggest that Hamilton is going to be another Schumacher is ludicrous. Ask me in 2-3 more seasons. I read in F1 Magazine that 2007 was Hamilton's best shot at a WDC, and the odds are against him in the future. With the increased competiton expected in 2008, this just might prove true. Its all a guess.
Ron Dennis has to kiss Max's ass to be left alone thats what it amounts to ,and if I were him I'd tell him to swivel and go find somewhere else to play with his hamster. The only reason they have let them off looking at there car is because it will look good when they go to court with Brundle, in a REAL court room but the freak will back out no doubt.
Andreas, Sorry mate but I cannot disagree further. - Do you honestly think Brawn and co did not take Benetton information to the Ferrari team in '95? - Ofcourse they did, and I don't just mean in their head. Designers yeah even though they are not supposed to are proud of their designs and ideas and yep they keep stuff. The first Brawn Ferrari was simply a red Benetton, and around that time they produced a carbon copy of the then dominant Williams. - Do you honestly think that Renault did not use any of that McLaren data - Ofcourse they did. - Do you honestly think that Ferrari cared about McLaren having their data - Ofcourse they didn't, EXCEPT they didn't want to loose another championship and start that path towards a 21 year drought. How can anybody be proud of a team that through their own fault allowed data to flow to another team and then played childish "I'll tell on you to mummy, because I'm not winning". Once McLaren is removed from effective competition Ferrari have neutered their only competition. This is a REAL character defining moment of Jean Todt, ie. "I will screw anybody to win, because I am not a sports person". No wonder MS had the sporting morals of a rapist (and no I am not saying MS raped people, but he did not care how he won and at what cost ...). I tell you now, Enzo Ferrari might have been a complete bastard but he knew how to race and yes there were times when he played dirty (sports car championship when he had a race removed from the calender so his team won) but most of the time he took loosing on the chin and turned up next race fighting fit. This is just wrong, and there is NO intellectual property issues with motorsport as you do NOT sell the product. It is a fncken sport for Christ's sake. It is NOT done to advance road cars (that stopped back in the 50's) it is done to prove who is the fastest. Fnck you Jean Todt and Max, just go and fnck yourselves and piss off!!!!!!!!!!! Pete
F1 Magazine is like Playboy: Just look at the pretty pictures. They don't expect you to actually read the stuff. Hamilton is a multiple WDC in the making. I have 50 bucks riding on that and feel just fine about it. PS: You sure you didn't misread that statement: It'd made a lot of sense if the name was Massa.
What is Hamilton going to drive?. McLaren are not allowed to be competitive in this farce called F1, so I think your 50 bucks is long gone! The best thing McLaren could do is pull out of F1. I really hope they do this. The British would go crazy (their baby LH would be without a drive) and F1 would hopefully crash and burn ... heck I (at the moment because I'm really angry) hope that Ferrari goes under because of it. If I see a Ferrari today I'm going to spit on the piece of ****! Come on RD, be a man and pull out and go and make a few more electrical products. Pete Who once was one of the tifosi ...
Hami is young. Next year is another Kimi year, but in 09 my crystal ball sees Kimi retire and Alonso struggle in his first year at Ferrari. Hami will bag it in a McLaren.
boy have you and the others lost the plot !! Ferrari didn't care ??!! what is the court case about then, who has the biggest ice cream stand ??!! and why did McL decide to take Renault to the FIA as well ? oh, that's ok because McL are holier than the rest and would never do anything wrong .... NOT!!! seriously, they ****ing cheated, have admitted it, finally AND still you guys are lining up to bat for them
And this confirms it, they have to plead to the FIA , its a joke I do wish RD/Hamilton would tell Max where to stick it coz if push come to shove you can bet Bernie would step in and get Andreas his money McLaren offers to restrict development Thursday, 13, December, 2007, 17:35 McLaren has offered to impose a moratorium on the development of some aspects of its 2008 car to avoid any perception that it could have benefited from leaked Ferrari technical secrets. In a letter sent to FIA president Max Mosley on 5 December and published today (Thursday), McLaren admitted that confidential Ferrari information may have been more widely disseminated within the team than it had previously thought. The letter was sent by McLaren Group COO Martin Whitmarsh following a report by the FIAs technical department, which recently investigated the teams Woking factory. The report is believed to have expressed concerns that three elements of McLarens 2008 car could have been inspired by Ferrari designs. The British team has therefore proposed to apply a self-imposed ban on development in these areas. To avoid even the possibility of Ferrari information influencing our performance during 2008, McLaren has offered a set of detailed undertakings to the FIA which will impose a moratorium on development in relation to three separate systems, said a team statement
John, You've missed my point. Yes McLaren cheated. I accept that. But like I said, so has and does Ferrari, Renault, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Williams, Super Aguri, etc. There is NO intellectual property in F1!. Now if McLaren had stolen a F430 concept and used it on their next road car ... fair game for the law suit, but this is a no product SPORT. This case is not about that, it is about neutering McLaren because Max and Jean Todt do not like RD. That is what it really is about, and that is why Renault will not be penalised because Fav and Bernie are giving each other **** ****... Pete
