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Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154766/2021-mclaren-essentially-new-due-to-mercedes-switch

    McLaren's switch to Mercedes power units means it has designed "essentially a new car" for 2021, despite the stability in the Formula 1 regulations.

    F1 announced last March that teams would continue to use their 2020 cars in 2021 to save on development costs, helping out financially due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic.

    Teams were permitted to use two development tokens for major car upgrades, which McLaren was forced to spend on fitting the new Mercedes power unit, having planned the switch for 2021 before the carryover was announced.

    While most teams have kept around 60% of their 2020 cars for 2021, McLaren has revealed that the scale of the Mercedes power unit switch means the majority of its MCL35M chassis is brand new.

    "Whereas every other team will carry over most of its car from last year into this year, our switch to the Mercedes power unit means that's not the case for us," said McLaren production director Piers Thynne.


    "It's driven a huge amount of change and, essentially, we've been building a new car. The number of new parts on the MCL35M is about the same as when we built the MCL35.

    "The back of the chassis and gearbox bell housing around the engine have changed significantly to adapt to the new power unit.

    "Changing power unit greatly alters the architecture of the car and the way everything is packaged, so the entire cooling layout and all the pipework, be that for fluid or air, has changed, along with all electrical harnessing and control boxes.

    "There are some significant elements of carryover as we enter the cost cap.

    "The FIA created a list of Transitional Carry Over (TCO) components that are outside of this year's cost cap. These are parts that can be used in 2021 if they were run on last year's car.

    "We've pushed these TCO regulations to the absolute maximum to allow us to carry over as much as possible, such as gearbox internals and some suspension components, and therefore not have to use a portion of our 2021 budget on their design and production."

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    McLaren homologated the design of the MCL35M in December, with drivers Lando Norris and new arrival Daniel Ricciardo set to sample it for the first time at pre-season testing in March.

    The team's focus has now shifted to the design of its 2022 car since the window for aerodynamic development opened on 1 January.

    Thynne said McLaren was "able to hit the ground running" with the wind tunnel programme for its 2022 car.

    "In terms of the actual production of the '22 car, it's very early days and the focus is predominantly on parts to be tested in the wind tunnel," Thynne said.

    "As the aerodynamic design matures we'll make more and more aero components for wind tunnel testing.

    "These tests are really important: it's all about establishing what works and what doesn't because when we do come to build the '22 car we want it to be right first time.

    "The test pieces should push the boundaries aerodynamically because that's how you gain performance. If they work, then great. If they don't, we can always take a step back for the actual production part.

    "You need to shoot for the stars and that's exactly what were doing to get back to the front of the grid."
     
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  3. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    What year might that be?
     
  4. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    #778 375+, Jan 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2021
    Mid 1970s after BRM folded, before the Renault Turbo and the 12 cylinder Alfa and Matra.
     
  5. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for educating him.

    I have given up myself.
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Either Alfa/Matra/BRM where racing with Ferrari and cosworths...

    It's true that Cosworth had overwhelming majority of supplying others, however...
     
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  8. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Thank you for putting it in the most condescending way possible, because it turns out you are flat out wrong. In the 60s, 70s and indeed 80s, there where always 3 or more engine manufacturers in F1. And of course outside those periods as well.
     
  9. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    My sources show me that in 1975, Ferrari was the only team not to have a Cosworth engine in their cars. Feel free to check.

    Cosworth supplied DFV to the following teams. Brabham, McLaren, Hesketh, Tyrrell, Shadow, Lotus, Williams, Parnelli, Hill, Penske and Ensign.

    The manner in which you resurrect a post one month later simply to make a cheap point tells me all there is to know about you.
     
  10. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    1975 BRM and Matra raced in F1.

    I didn't resurrect a thread. DF1 posted before me which ''resurrected'' it (updated). Your post was only a few above it. So naturally, it's something that catches. I don't check every post date to see if it's time sensitive to react to it.
     
  11. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ
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    Jumper in the Shadow at Osterreichring and Monza. Cool. ;)
     
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  13. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    In the 1975 season the Shadow DN7 Matra raced at Osterreichring and Monza(thanks Isobel); BRM did not participate at British, German and US GPs and DNQ at Monaco. It appears that in these four races Ferrari had the only non-Cosworth powered cars in the field. I really need to get a life.
     
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  14. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    Sadly this is incorrect. In 1975 you had the following engines:

    1. Ferrari 180* Flat 12
    2. Cosworth V8
    3. Matra V-12 ( shadow ran the V-12 at Watkins Glen, and tested it at a number of races but only raced in North America)
    4. BRM - Motul was the initial sponsor like in 74 but then it got bumpy - Mike Wildes and Bob Evans were the drivers, I think they only did the European races.

    So there were 4 engine mfg's in 75. I don't think there was any year where it was the DFV and Ferrari. Matra hung around till 1982, BRM technically to 1977, but by then you had Renault, Alfa, and BMW with Turbos, Honda with Spirit, etc... and you get into the Turbo era proper .... in the 50'and 60's there were always at least 3-4 engines, Ferrari, Climax, Alfa, Maserati, Honda, Ford / Offenhauser, Repco ( GM ), Mercedes, Matra, Tecno, BRM,.... and lots of small one offs...
     
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  15. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Yes, BRM and Matra engines participated in 1975; they scored no point, and that's how they went under the radar during my searches.
    BRM entered 13 GPs that year,had 6 DNFs, and 4 finishes, They couldn't qualify at Monaco,or have their car ready for the British and German GP.
    They were a spent force by then.
    Shadow tried a Matra engine in Italy and Austria, in view of the following season. Two DNFs must have convinced them it wasn't an option to follow ...

    I stick by my statement that Ferrari was the only real opposition against the Cosworth DFV that year.
    Not only the Cosworth powered cars from Brabham, McLaren, Hesketh, Tyrrell, Shadow, Lotus, Williams, Parnelli, Hill, Penske and Ensign, as I mentioned, but I found, also provided engines to March, Maki, Copersucar, Surtees, and Lyncar, which must be a record.
     
  16. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    I was not arguing that Ferrari was the only real competition in 75 - clearly they were the class of the field, but there were other engine combos. Sadly BRM was way past it ... but they did sound good when you heard them! same for Matra.
     
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  17. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Got you Will-I-am, now that you are proven wrong you quickly change you stance to ''Ferrari was the only opposition against Cosworth":):):):):):):):):)
     
  18. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    I question this^^^^o_O
     
  19. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    My friend wikipedia tells me that the Matra V12 powered Shadow, the DN7, took part only to the Austria and Italy races in 1975, and retired in both.
    Shadow used the Cosworth powered DN5 in all other races, including the final round in the US.
     
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  20. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    #792 spirot, Feb 1, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
    what is the question? I was actually at that race, saw it myself. Billed as a "Matra in a shadow."... I'm pulling from memory on all this. That being said - maybe it was practice?
     
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  21. 375+

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    Tom it may have been in the garage with the DN5s and possibly appeared in practice but it did not race. Do you recall hearing it run? That is something you would never forget.
     
  22. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  23. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    McLaren Reveal Their 2021 Car: The MCL35M

     
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  24. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Fun and interesting reveal with Mclaren on SKY. Nice looking car. I hope for great success to them. Go Ricci!
     
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  25. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    McLaren: 2021 F1 car has "fresh ideas" despite limitations
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    McLaren's new MCL35M has still managed to incorporate some "fresh ideas" despite the homologation limits of Formula 1's 2021 rules, according to technical director James Key.

    The Woking-based team revealed its new Mercedes-powered challenger with a digital launch at its factory on Monday night.

    While the car features some carry over aspects of last year's challenger, it has undergone some extensive revisions both to accommodate its new Mercedes engine - having used Renault power units for the past three years - and also to comply with new aero rules.

    Although the main focus for the team over the winter was on engine installation, Key said that his design team has worked hard to improve the car's aerodynamics too as it bids to exploit the nose concept it introduced over the second half of last year.

    "There has been an aero push," said Key.

    "Any new set of regs naturally open up fresh opportunities in other areas anyway, so the car does look a bit different.

    "There will be some fresh ideas on there. The front of the car from a regulation point of view hasn't changed at all, but there are developments that we're still looking at in those areas as well. And that will continue on into the season.


    "It would be naive to think that you could kind of just adapt a bit to the reg changes and move on. Everyone's going to be pushing for sure, so we wanted to make sure we were doing the same."

    Key said that the work McLaren had to do to fit the Mercedes engine was extensive, especially as the layout of the power unit's split turbine and compressor is different to how Renault laid out its components.

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    "Every engine installation is really quite different," he said.

    "There is no one solution on how these power units are laid out, or the sizing of various key components either that affect the car's architecture.

    "So what we needed to try and do is respect the homologation process by not changing things that didn't really need to change in line with installing the engine.

    "But, clearly, making the changes we needed to do to homologated parts, that allowed us to change the chassis, which of course has to change with a new engine and the energy store aspects of the gearbox for packaging purposes.


    "It added an extra dimension, which probably led to a slightly suboptimal approach compared to what you would do if you're completely free. But I don't think it was that much of a compromise."

    Despite the scale of the work, though, Key added that he was impressed by how well thought-out the Mercedes layout is.

    "I think the Mercedes installation is certainly extremely tidy, you can see how much attention to detail has gone into it," he said.

    "So it's very straightforward to package in that respect. And that has given us a few sort of plus points.

    "Equally there's further demand in other areas which we've had to adjust to in the other way."

    Despite the change in engine supplier, Mercedes branding is absent from McLaren's F1 car, driver overalls and team uniforms this year.

    While it seems slightly unusual for teams not to run the logo of their engine supplier, McLaren has explained that the absence is down to the outfit having a pure customer relationship with Mercedes - that does not extend as far as a marketing deal.

    It is a similar policy at Racing Point, which has not featured branding of the Mercedes badge despite it being one of its customers.
     
  26. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    The car from the outside looks near identical. Slimmer at the very rear of the body work, a noticable fatter ''bubble'' in the middle but slightly smaller sidepods. I would say their biggest challenge would be weight distribution, we'll see that at the season opener if it's been an advantage or disadvantage, however.
     
  27. fer312t

    fer312t Formula Junior

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    Jarier's official entry for Watkins was car #17, which was the Matra powered DN7.
    #17T was the backup car - a conventional Cosworth-powered DN5.
    He indeed ran DN7 in practice, but it was not as quick, so reverted to the 'T' car for the race.

    Here's a couple shots of the DN7-Matra running at Watkins:

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  28. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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