MEGA THREAD : PORSCHE VS. NISSAN : New GTR : 7:15 around the Nurburgring?

I have to agree.

When thinking about it..... how is it even remotely possible that Nissan, a company who have had very limited international racing success, unrepeatable lap times at misc. tracks around the world (remember the R34 supposedly got 7:59, when SA couldn't even come remotely close to that) .... and Nissan have had a long history of "stacking the deck" so to speak, or out right lying.

Further, seeing this "new" standard car lap time of sub 7:30

A CGT, with its extremely rigid chassis, extremely low CG, and fairly light weight chassis being 800 lbs less then the Nissan, and 200+ hp more then the Nissan in question....

A Zonda being even less weight then the CGT, and more power too, is only 1 second faster then the GTR??? Surely if you say that aloud enough, it will sound odd enough to believe it?

Is it possible that Nissan are that far ahead of the Nurburgring kings, Porsche? .... not to mention BMW, and Audi ..... It just seems too good to be true... and an old wise man once said "if it's too good to be true, it probably is."

I mean

Zonda in-car footage vs. the in car footage of the GTR that ran 7:39 or whatever.... are we supposed to believe that a GTR can match a 2700ish lb 650 hp high downforce mid-engined supercar around the ring in cornering speed, and out right acceleration?

 

The most interesting comparison at this year's One Lap is the No. 16 C6 Z06 (highest placed C6 Z06) versus the No. 100 GT-R. Both cars are stock, which removes the variable of performance modifications. After 12 time trials rounds, the GT-R is ahead of the Z06 in 10 of those time trials.

 

This is a very large glass house of rock throwers, indeed.

For the conditions the GT-R is actually doing amazingly well against most of all the cars in this entire event; maintaining top 10 for a bone stock car against top cars. It's maintaining leads over 911s, Z06s, and another Viper in yesterday's results.

I don't see any Ferraris on the lists or placing anywhere. Are there any Ferraris in this event? If there are they must be so down in standings as to be negligible.

 

British car mags beat the GT3, R8 and 997 TT with a stock customer GTR. Any comments?

 

If the GT-R can really come within a second of the CGT, Porsche engineers should eat their shoes.

I wonder how fast the Enzo is on Nur.....

 

Well, that isn't too surprising, imo. Those are supposed to be its competition.

What I'd love to know is this. If the GT-R is capable of the 'Ring in 7:29 with less than "500Bhp", then that should obviously mean its suspension is top notch, which is expected since its a computer on wheels.

BUT, how come on tracks that focus on handling, and some speed, the GT-R can just barely run next to a Superleggera or 997 Turbo?

CAR Magazine tested the R8, 997 Turbo, & GT-R at Rockingham. In these times, the GT-R came on top, but only 1 second faster.
At Tsukuba, where the GT-R had set a record of 1:01.94 with Keichi T., just barely beating a 360 Challenge Stradale. Now, Best Motoring (which has Keichi as a driver) has beaten that with the Supeleggera at 1:01.599.
And at Bedford Autodrome, it set a time of 1:21.7, which is 2+ seconds behind the Carrera GT, an Enzo, and a McLaren F1. It was also only .10 seconds faster than the Superleggera.

So, I have to ask, if this GT-R has a 'Ring time of 7:29, then it obviously has some major suspension, braking, and horsepower tech. under the hood (as I said earlier). Being so, why is it that it can not come next to the same rivals on the 'Ring on other tracks where it actually has a bigger advantage?

 

The ACR on one lap beat the GTR by over 25 seconds on one track!

 

Did you know the One Lap times are the aggregation of three laps? Did you know that the ACR Viper is pretty trick with ECU tied to steering angle, electronic rear diff, traction control, and Hennessy bolt-ons? That ACR Viper is an absolute monster, and definitely not something you can buy straight off the showroom floor.

 

Here's my pet theory. Tracks such as Rockingham, Tsukuba, and Bedford Autodrome are not as scary as the Nordschleife. Bedford Autodrome especially is a very safe track. Exceeding the limits of your car at Bedford will not result in terrible consequences. At the Nordscleife, an off will be painful and unpleasant. The GT-R's advantage is that its various systems and chassis composure enable its driver to explore the outer limits of the performance envelope. A car such as the Carrera GT is much less forgiving, and so the same driver may not be willing to push quite so near to the outer edge of the envelope on a lap of the Nordschleife.

 

I would definitely agree here. I also think the CGT is probably getting sold short. . . I really can't see someone going absolutely totally balls-out in someone else's half million dollar car around the ring. Also Porsche, unlike Nissan, doesn't really need the lap time as a status symbol as they already have a very well established performance marque. Nissan also has a good performance history, but it is hardly world-class.

 

I don't see how the CGT and 911 Turbo are sold short on these tracks. If a car feels more stable and more in control, the driver can explore the full envelope of performance. In a vehicle that's less stable at limits, feels more dangerous, makes it much harder for driver to turn in a good laptime due to fear of pain and death. . Watch the Evo video review of the GT-R vs Porsche 911 Turbo, you can clearly see the twitchy at-limit handling of the 911 Turbo versus the drama-free blistering cornering speed of the GT-R. Every review of the GT-R concludes that the electronics and mechanical engineering of the GT-R allows for drivers to push it harder than any other hyper-performance vehicle in the world. Does that mean the GT-R has an unfair advantage? I hardly think so.

In the hands of professionals, the performance difference of the CGT & GT-R might be marginal. In the hands of amateurs or track newbies like myself, I'll probably turn in a so-so time on the GT-R and perish with the CGT in a huge ball of flame. The CGT will stir my soul much more than the Nissan, but the Nissan electronic mentor will probably save my life at the end of the day. Does that make the GT-R a better performing car? IMO yes~

 

Its a factory car with a full exhaust. If you cant buy that straight off the showroom floor then maybe your looking in the wrong showrooms. But still 25 seconds even in 3 laps is a BIG DEAL for an almost stock car.

 

Often, C+D are a step above many of the others.... but often as well... they deserve the moniker "Car and Drivel" ...... I'm sure they will be talking about how fantastic the car was blah blah, and if only the reliability was there, since it was a beaten up press car (word is that the car's engine is toast)

If/ When the GTR's start lapping tracks here as fast as a Caterham, or faster then a F430 etc. ..... then that will be something

unfortunately, an ugly duck is still an ugly duck. It was designed by 3 different design teams on 3 different continents, lending to it's confused gaping mouth look, where the side doesn't flow with the front, or rear, the front doesn't match the rear, and the head lights split the fenders.

Design wise.... the worst thing to come out of Japan since the Toyota PM.

 

Ain't gonna happen with Tony Swan at the wheel. I've already beat him in one race that's gone down in history--and have the trophy to prove it.

 

What does that have to do with anything I said?

 

Well, I agree with you to a point. However, the Carrera GT is far from getting sold short. Porsche's own test driver, Rohrl, was the man behind the Carrera GT's 7:28 time. But yes, I'm sure even he was a bit afraid of pushing the car.

 

except the fat gt-r actuallyl weights 3800plus lbs!!!

 

A stock ACR Viper does not have all of this car's fancy electronics. It's one of a kind.

 

Agreed. Nissan's times are doctored. Period....

 

How are the times doctored. It IS faster then the GT3 and 997 Turbo in third party hands... bone stock customer car.

 

Because Nissan couldn't possibly produce anything that great, duh. Only Ferrari and Porsche make performance vehicles, duh.

 

LOL