Guess this was not part of LH's decision matrix to leave? http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/8231657/McLaren-to-remain-with-Mercedes
I believe you're correct. No big deal - They've paid for engines before and most of 'em are always paying of course. [Another reason why JT wants engine costs included in any RRA/budget cap - Not fair otherwise.] I guess that if Ross should build a good car next year and beat Mclaren the TFHB will decide it's all another conspiracy and they're giving Mclaren ****ty motors. Cheers, Ian
FWIIW: I read a rumor that said Honda is eager make a comeback as engine manufacturer. If true, I guess that would be with the new engines in 2014. Maybe McLaren with MB power is just a temporary solution?
I suspect you read that in the comments section of the referenced article - Thats where I saw that figure anyway..... Dunno if there's any truth to it though - Seems a little cheap to me. Cheers, Ian
I read the same. 8mil Brit pounds! No one else in the F1 media universe is reporting this yet(original link).
Mercedes are designing their next engine specifically to what Bob Bell, Aldo Costa, and Ross Brawn's want. The F1 car for Mercedes circa 2014 will be their first 100% 'designed for Mercedes F1 team' car. Mclaren know this, and while they know Mercedes are not about to build a poor quality product, they know it is not going to be built with anyone in mind other than the werks team. If I were Mclaren, I would be begging Honda to build engines for Mclaren so maybe they have some say in how they might work.
While that may be a true, the engine specs are now so tight that it really makes no difference. Vee angle, turbo & exhaust configuration are all defined. Even the engine mounting configuration (bolts, size & location etc) is fixed. So, unless you can read the name on the cam covers they're all pretty much identical - I fail to see what they can do to advantage one team over another. Cheers, Ian
Given that Mclaren are a 'major' customer one might think they could have at least some input as the engine will be powering their chassis??
Mounting points, torque curves, ignition advance, fuel curves, controlling when and where turbo will function optimally, exhaust behaviour, how and when KERS will work at certain rpms. These are all small-ish things, but it's meaningful info for some things like 'box ratio choices which could yield better suspension setup. The more you know right. The 750 or so bhp or so which will be available from these engines can be had at rpm up to 15k rpm, but we all know that with the fuel requirements being what they are that 15k rpm is not needed to make max power from this formula. Being the tester and designer of these engines and having first whack at the knowledge yielded from the testing will certainly show the benefits and pitfalls of designing a 750bhp @ 15k rpm engine or a 750bhp @ 13k rpm engine and their respective power curves. It's going to be interesting seeing what everyone's own 'best' configuration is going to be. I find it crazy how even with the strict current naturally aspirated V8 rules we know that the Mercedes engine has the most BHP and torque and this the MB powered cars go through rear tires more, the Renault engine is very smooth and driveable with not a huge amount of torque but the power curve is very even, the Ferrari engine is also very even in its delivery yet has very good torque, the Cosworth engine has good power but is very peaky and uneven compared to all others. With turbos, there will be even more wacky characterizations of each engine manufacturer. Mercedes may have a very rich fuel curve and have their turbo spool up quick and boost big for a very even yet powerful curve, Ferrari could chose a more gradual spool up to avoid putting too much torque and power down too quickly as it may be hard on the tires, Honda may go banzaii and spool up quick and be an on/off switch. The first few races will be a gumball machine, never know what may come out the bottom.
+1 Absolutely. However, I'd be willing to bet that Mclaren's supply contract specifies that no such data is given to anyone until it's given to all of 'em. Cheers, Ian
You're probably dead right there. Non-disclosure agreements a plenty in all those essays which F1 likes to call contracts these days lol.
"Clause!" - I'm pretty sure it will be many pages long.... Anyway, IMO, very long. For a few reasons; - While both the team and Merc High Performance Powertrains (MHPP) are ultimately owned by the same guys, they remain very separate companies. They're close geographically, but the factories are distinct entities run by completely different people. - All engine suppliers are fiercely protective of their work. I'd bet very few people know the power & torque curves for example and then only on a "need to know" basis. Violate that trust and you'll be looking for a job real quick. - Mclaren have a much longer working relationship with 'em than the team. Loyalty may not mean much, but many peoples bonuses have been made on the back of Mclarens results than Mercs. They know which side their bread is buttered, at least in the short term. I reckon they're going to extraordinary lengths to be fair to all their customers - They will supply identical motors to all of 'em. They already know the basic dimensions, minimum weight and C of G etc - That's what they need to get started. Beyond that, it's still up to the teams to do or modify their parameters - The engine & ignition maps, KERS configuration etc etc still remain tunable. Again, I just don't see what Ross et al could specify in the design that wouldn't benefit (or hinder!) them all. Cheers, Ian
+1 No doubt. "The human race never ceases to disappoint me"....... I guess I'm more questioning what "edge" they could give Ross at this stage? FPiloto makes some good points but until they get the things on their own dyno's and start running 'em in anger there'll be many open questions. Hopefully they'll allow a lot more testing at the end of '13 to get these things figured out prior to the new season. Cheers, Ian
Even with the tight and strict rules NASCAR has, there are differences between engines. Getting your engine from RCR vs Roush can make a big difference at Daytona... Roush engines have a huge cooling advantage over several other engine builders for the past two seasons. In a pack with little clean air making it into your radiator, that makes a big difference. The same is true of F1, sometimes pre DRS a car would be following another car close, trying to work past it, and the engineers would tell the driver to back off - temps to high.
