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Mercedes F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Jun 11, 2018.

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  1. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,724
    Yes Michael made a bit of that up, but he also figured out what to tell the engineers to make the car faster.
     
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  2. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 31, 2016
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    Joe R Gonzales
    Mercedes could ditch the 'no sidepod" design after the SpanishGP and go to plan b--->an F1 car with sidepods.
     
  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,724
    It does not seem that Mercedes needs any more cooling--which is why sidepods are like they are.

    But changing sidepods will likely just move them down grid order......
     
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  4. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    May 10, 2006
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    From what I have heard so far, the Mercedes has so much clean downforce it exacerbates the bouncing more than anyone on the grid. All of their alterations have been to create less downforce (both wings changed) and create more outwash around the wheels. Mercedes have yet to added the ice skate blade solution Ferrari and Red Bull have. They in essence created a laboratory-grade weapon but with no time to test it other than at races.

    Jumping into the time machine, we remember the W03 which had the genius front/rear interconnected suspension that cooked the tires. They got their hands around that concept and implemented it fully on the W05 with which they qualified a full second ahead of everyone on the field. Merc will figure this configuration and dust everyone, again. The cooling solution that is responsible for their current zero sidepods was first tested last year. No one has their hands around that yet.
     
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  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Considering that (non official) F1 tests where held on Silverstone, Magny Cours, Imola, Monza, Barcelona and others throughout the season well into the 2000s, I wouldn't hold much hope on that ban. The only ban they had was no testing on tracks in a certain time limit before the race, which i believe was 1 or 2 weeks.

    Back in 2006 or so Magny Cours was 30-40K and could be arranged within days (so long there wasn't an actual event on, of course). Monza was similar so I expect others not that far off, either.

    Those testing in South Africa or other warm climates in the winter, Ferrari still had the same issue as well. Fiorano isn't in a micro climate where the sun shines 24/7. In winter especially, quite the opposite.
     
  6. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
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    Hmmm not so sure about that.
     
  7. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,792
    #382 DeSoto, May 12, 2022
    Last edited: May 12, 2022
    It´s not about cooling, but that sidepod design also brings drag and a floor that flexes too much. The problem seems quite complex, but I agree in that changing sidepods at this moment of the season probably would be useless.
     
  8. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,792
    Between the W03 and a W05 there were two years, an engine change, several tyre redesings (some made purposefully to suit Mercedes) and unlimited funding. Back then they could put that engine in a turd and still would win.

    They better think faster this time or they won´t be winning anything till 2026.
     
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  9. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Mercedes are ****ed and finished for this season. They lost a major force of their brain, people from all areas fled to other teams, even Aldo costa left, so don't expect any miracles.
     
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  10. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie



    MSC also closed down the gap to Williams while at Benetton
     
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  11. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Wouldn't shout that too loudly just yet...thought I do hope you're right.

    Massive update coming in Barcelona. Floor, wings, engine (not sure if the engine is coming in barcelona or shortly after).
     
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  12. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    I understand what you are saying but I’m not sold about the concept of clean downforce.
    I would prefer a non peaky downforce concept.
     
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  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
    27,641
    Yes, I agree Mercedes are in trouble.
    The brain drain and budget cap will affect them more other team, because they have been living on a high for many years.
    Whatever they try this year, it will be wallpapering the cracks.
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't wish to revisit that, but Benetton was also using some dubious methods at times, right?
     
  15. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,792
    With or without cheating Benetton would have won anyway. It was the best chassis, it just was lacking on power. In 1994 Williams screwed it up with the rule change and getting a driver killed didn't help either. They often failed at pit strategy too. For 1995 Benetton solved their biggest weakness with the Renault engine and it was a walk in the park.

    Also: Damon Hill.
     
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  16. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    FIA investigated McLaren, Benetton and Ferrari for suspected illegal software usage. All three teams were found not guilty.
     
  17. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    Since you want to re-open the can of worms, here it is.
    It's Ayrton Senna who aleted the FIA of his suspicion about Benetton about the legality of their traction control, having witnessed the performance during the 2 first races of 1994.
    Following the Imola weekend, the FIA decided to check without Benetton being singled out, so the cars of Berger (Ferrari), Hakkinen (McLaren ) and Schum
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    following post #392

    Following the Imola weekend, the FIA dedided to check without Benetton being singled out, so the cars of Berger (Ferrari), Hakkinen (McLaren) and Schumacher (Benetton) were impounded after the race. Their softwares were checked and nothing illegal was found.

    Schumacher's spectacular start at the French GP raised further suspicion. The FIA decided to have the Benetton software inspected by an outside agency. Liverpool Data Research Associates Ltd went over the software and found an illegal launching control program. Questioned Benetton said that taken by time, they couldn't rewrite the whole software, so simply stopped using the offending program. :rolleyes: The wording of the rule say it was illegal to USE a launch control program, not that it was illegal to have one in the software. Rather than dragging the issue in a long court case, the FIA prefered not to take action. But the doubt subsisted.

    Schumacher was disqualified after the Belgian GP for a ground clearance issue.

    Schumacher was also suspended from 2 races that year for not respecting a black flag following a warming lap infringement (at the instance of his team apparently!)
     
  19. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Schumacher was left foot braking and manipulating the throttle.

    Senna meanwhile was pissed off because he was taken out on the first corner by Mika Hakkinen, and remained utterly furious until the flight home, accusing Mika he crashed into him intentionally.

    Senna was a paranoid dick at the best of times, and it only became worse when he started to get beaten.

    See here a throttle and brake trace between Michael and Rubens some years later (this paints a very accurate picture. Look at those throttle traces from Michael to Rubens. Michael is constantly manipulating the car with the throttle, Rubens is not using it at all).
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Here's a video that further explains Michaels' throttle application in those years.
    Schumacher's driving style explainded - YouTube


    Launch control and traction control are 2 different things. So LDRA found Launch Control software but no traction control then. I've actually gone back and watched all starts until the French GP and if they did use it before France, it didn't really help them all that much as their starts where ****.
     
  20. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    They should give up on the 2022 car and start focusing on the 2023
    In the meantime 2022 could be a test bed for 2023 development :cool:
     
  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    Not denying any of this.
    But I am sticking to my initial comment:" Benetton was also using some dubious methods at times"

    I wasn't questioning Schumacher skill at all.
     
  22. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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  23. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    With insights after Singapore 2008, one can said everything related to Briatore is dubious.
     
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  24. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    What dubious methods were they found using ?
     
  25. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Excessive wear from the kerbs ?
     
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