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Mercedes F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Jun 11, 2018.

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  1. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Hamilton believes Merc ‘haven’t improved’ since first race—

    Looking back over the opening five rounds, Mercedes’ deficit to Red Bull and Ferrari has shown little sign of reducing, with Hamilton suggesting that no progress has been made.


    Asked if Mercedes had made a positive step in Miami, Hamilton, quoted by Crash.net, said: “Unfortunately not.

    “We’re the same speed as we were in the first race and we just haven’t improved in these five races.

    “But I’m hopeful at some stage we will. We just have to keep trying and keep working hard.”
     
  2. 20000rpm

    20000rpm Karting

    Jan 3, 2022
    226
    Another sandbagging from Ham and Merc..
    Their car is scoring points just out of the blue, it seems.
    Something is definitely illegal else they wouldn't have scored 5th, 6th at Miami, if I go by Hams statement.
     
  3. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    I see no crazy conspiracy you can prove. Row 3 or worse for each race and podium only by attrition
     
    william likes this.
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,647
    Which is well below their standards anyway.

    They may be 3rd, but the gap is big between them and RedBull/Ferrari on the track.
     
    DF1 and jpalmito like this.
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,717
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    No bigger than other teams that where 3rd from 2014-2021...
     
    SimCity3 likes this.
  6. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    Mercedes are back in the hunt.

    How is the budget cap working, and will data be published ?
     
    20000rpm and DF1 like this.
  7. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Superb question!! I would like to know how the teams compare on spend so far!
     
    SimCity3 likes this.
  8. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    24,295
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Binotto post race interview:

    Mercedes were 7/10's off the pace in quali.

    After the race, Russell was 32sec behind Max and Lewis was 54sec behind Max(albeit the contact with K-Mag on lap 1). Had Max had not had his DRS failure and Leclerc''s DNF, Mercedes race pace would have been 6 to 7/10's off in race pace of both Leclerc and Max.

    Mercedes looks like a solid 3rd in the WCC standings currently after Spain2022.
     
    Jeronimo GTO, 375+ and Bas like this.
  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,717
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Exactly. The reality is different from the picture Mercedes is trying to paint.
     
    jgonzalesm6 likes this.
  10. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    They have a more stable platform now. Some increase in pace and will make Q3. Wins are not close yet. Podiums yes. I was thinking .6 if they were lucky. Binotto has the numbers!
     
  11. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    And with the newly unpredictable nature of this era, Russell is just 30 points behind Leclerc !
     
  12. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,727
    I think it is fair to say that Mercedes HAS found the cause of the porpoising and is now in a position to start tuning the car.
    At the beginning of the year it was a 3rd fastest car, and now it is still the third fastest car, but now it is in a position to be tuned into a second fastest car.
     
  13. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    13,651
    The Mercedes looks extremely close to the ground to me. A few trips over the curbs would destroy their floors.
     
  14. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    It is amazing the luck Russell has had and the position he is in. We have an interesting season!
     
    ingegnere likes this.
  15. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,566
    Montreal
    They’re literally on the ground:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  16. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    He's created some of his own luck by qualifying further up the grid and giving himself some space.
    Solid job.
     
    jpalmito, 375+ and DF1 like this.
  17. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

  18. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    8,273
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    Don't know..
    Mercedes carbon fibre is magical everywhere( front wing, floor ..)
     
    SimCity3 likes this.
  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    24,295
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Given the speed, the car haunches lower to the ground thereby the floor gets closer to the ground. Yeah, it's legal.
     
  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,717
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas

    Tech regs:

    3.15.7 Outboard Floor Flexibility a. Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a [0, 0, -500]N load is applied to it at XR=-450 and Y= ±450. The load will be applied using a 50mm diameter ram and an adaptor of the same size. Teams must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary. b. Bodywork may deflect no more than 20mm vertically when a [0, 0, 500]N load is applied to it at points [XR, Y] [-450, ±600] or [-1300, ±670]. The load will be applied using a 50mm diameter ram and an adaptor of the same size in an upwards or downwards direction. Teams must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.

    3.15.8 Central Floor Flexibility a. Bodywork within RV-PLANK may deflect no more than 1mm at the two holes in the plank at XF=1080 and no more than 2mm at the rearmost hole, when the car, without driver, is supported at these positions. The car will be supported on 70mm diameter pads, centred on the holes, and only in contact with the underside of the plank assembly. The displacement will be measured at the supports, relative to the reference plane at the centre of each hole. Furthermore, there may be up to 1mm additional deflection at the forward positions provided it complies with Article 3.15.2


    It's hard to find really high res pics but the Mercedes looks to flex it floors much more than any other team. See here a pic off the Merc entering the pit and it looks to be much higher. Yes no suspension compression from being at speed, but something to keep an eye on at least...

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Cars not in porpoise mode are running very low to the ground. This is normal. RedBull have been shown as low at times. I see no issues but the FIA Im certain looks over the data/pictures as well.
     
  22. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    The FIA DQ'd Schumacher for far less.
    The Benetton plank wore thin due to him hitting the kerbs.

    It's possible that the FIA were trying to slow MSC down by any means they had at their disposal :D
     
  23. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ


    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-mercedes-spanish-gp-gains-arent-as-grand-as-they-seemed/10310056/

    Why Mercedes' Spanish GP gains aren't as grand as they seemed
    By: Matt Kew
    May 24, 2022, 1:49 PM
    Mercedes' strong showing in last weekend's Spanish Grand Prix prompted team boss Toto Wolff to say it had halved its deficit to the leaders and its Formula 1 title chances were back on after a rocky start to the 2022 campaign. But a closer inspection of the team's performance suggests its gains aren't as grand as they first appeared

    ‘Supertimes’ offer a broad outline as to where a team ranks during a grand prix event on raw pace. The fastest lap set during a weekend earns a perfect score of 0.000 and the remaining nine teams earn a percentage over that benchmark. After Mercedes majorly played down its expectations heading into the Bahrain opener, it ran a distant third with a 0.541 deficit to pacesetter Ferrari. It was an underwhelming performance even though the retirements for both Red Bulls saved some face as Russell led Hamilton for a 3-4 finish.


    However, its gap to the frontrunners grew significantly from there. In Saudi Arabia, Mercedes was only fourth fastest with a 1.025 supertime. After Australia, the early nadir arrived at Imola, when an improved Alpine and McLaren front left the Silver Arrows as only the fifth-fastest concern with a 1.289 supertime. The tide started to turn in Miami when Russell topped FP2 as Mercedes appeared to get to grips with porpoising only to take backwards step with car set-up as qualifying and the race rolled around. Come the end of play in Spain, Mercedes was back as the third-quickest team and had narrowed its supertime deficit to 0.817.

    That marked a significant gain over Imola but is still well adrift of how Mercedes bolted out of the gate at Sakhir. Back to Wolff’s claim then. He is right to declare that the gap to the front is closing. But talk of it ‘halving’ only stands up to scrutiny if compared to Italy and not Bahrain.

    This is backed up by the numbers at the chequered flag. Russell crossed the line in Spain nigh on 33s adrift of race winner Max Verstappen. That is better only than the 42.506s chasm that opened up to the defending champion at Imola. Although, the smaller margins in Miami and Bahrain are skewed by the late safety cars that bunched up the field. Prior to the races being neutralised, Russell was fifth and 44s behind in America and Hamilton had been 38s in arrears of victor Charles Leclerc in the Middle East when he snared a podium.

    Let’s now focus on events in Spain specifically to assess whether the Mercedes optimism was wholly justified. Russell reckoned the team had “turned a page”. He continued: “I feel like this is probably the start of our season now… We're six races behind but there's no reason why we can't claw this back.”


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    George Russell, Mercedes-AMG, , 3rd position, on the Podium, sprays champagme

    Photo by: Steve Etherington / Motorsport Images

    Russell finishing over half a minute behind Verstappen doesn’t paint a whole picture, given the Red Bull driver had half-spun at Turn 4 on lap nine of 66 and careered across the gravel to shed a load of time. More than that, Leclerc was 13.5s ahead of Russell - then running second - when his Ferrari engine cut, and he retired. Add the two together and Russell might have been more like 46.5s slower than the winner across the full race distance.

    Again, for the sake of simplicity, divide both losing margins by the number of laps at Barcelona to get a rough gauge of race pace. The highest-placed Mercedes, Russell, was on average between 0.5s (Verstappen) and 0.7s (Leclerc) slower per lap than what would have been required to win last Sunday. Given that Russell didn’t make a major mistake to skew the result and significantly contribute to his deficit at the flag, it is unsurprising that the race history chart - which shows every driver’s gap to the leader and lap time - almost perfectly mirrors that 0.5-0.7s window every lap Russell and Verstappen were running the same tyre.

    What about Hamilton? The seven-time champion sustained a front-left puncture owing to his first-lap brush with Kevin Magnussen. Hamilton, the only driver to start on mediums, recovered to the pits and resumed on used softs in 19th place and was 54s behind Leclerc and Verstappen. He would cross the finish line with the exact same gap to Verstappen, suggesting he could match the winner’s pace. But the margin to Leclerc had peaked at 1m16s, when the Ferrari driver was in the zone on his newer soft C3 tyres.

    It was when Russell hit the front that Hamilton, shod with nine-lap newer mediums, began to close. But his gains were not just on account of exceeding his team-mate’s pace as Hamilton also had the measure of later leader Sergio Perez’s race pace. That earned him the fastest lap for some time before Perez’s late dash on softs. It enabled Hamilton to pass Sainz for fourth and bring the gap to first place below 40s.

    However, those advances were undone by the water leak (which Russell also faced) that caused engine temperatures to soar. Hamilton was instructed to lift and coast, making him a sitting duck when a DRS-assisted Sainz sailed back past on the main straight.

    The team was right to be jubilant after two incredible displays from two racers who were far happier as the engineers kept porpoising largely under control. Nevertheless, there's plenty of evidence to suggest the gap to the front wasn't slashed in half last weekend
    Unreliability aside, Hamilton’s pace was much more on the money than Russell's. But that comes with the caveats that firstly, he was often pounding round in clean air and not featuring at the front or in traffic to boost the health of his lap times. Second, Hamilton has proved over and over that he a master of tyre management. That in a race where the mid-30-degree Celsius heat chewed the rubber rapidly almost certainly helped his cause, so might not be a true read of whether Mercedes has indeed taken several strides forward.

    The case against the Silver Arrows having “halved the disadvantage” continues. Put the numbers to one side and what we simply observed on track worked to flatter how Mercedes fared last weekend. Leclerc retiring was one place gained for both drivers, Verstappen’s excursion through the gravel stopped the Dutch racer streaking even further clear. Sainz’s stuttering launch and tail wind-induced spin at Turn 4 handed Russell another position. And for the defence that the Mercedes newcomer delivered so valiantly to keep Verstappen at bay in their protracted battle, it must be considered that his chasing rival was persevering through an intermittent DRS failure. On another day, the RB18 sweeps by much sooner.
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  24. TopspeedPT

    TopspeedPT Formula 3

    Jul 6, 2012
    1,103
    Portugal

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