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Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mercedes-has-no-strengths-over-red-bull-in-f1-2021/5973435/

    Mercedes believes it has no strengths over Red Bull in Formula 1 this year, despite winning the season opening Bahrain Grand Prix.

    An aggressive strategy by the German car manufacturer, allied to some great tyre management and defensive driving from Lewis Hamilton, helped the world champion fend off Max Verstappen at Sakhir on Sunday.

    But despite the joy of the win, which came off the back of a tricky pre-season test, Mercedes is in no doubt that any prior advantage it has had in F1 has been wiped away.

    Mercedes trackside engineering director Andrew Shovlin said: “We don't really have any strengths relative to them.

    “We've had a lot of years where we've been able to rely on straight-line speed, or high-speed cornering or interconnecting corners. But you look at it here and we weren't taking any time out of them anywhere.

    "There were a couple of corners where they really took chunks out of us in qualifying: the high-speed and also Turn 9/10, they were very strong there.

    “And that's really the main thing. In qualifying we're just bang on their pace in our best corners and they're quicker in the others. So we need a faster car, as simple as that.”
     
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  3. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    Back in 2019 Ferrari gave them a beating at this track (well, except for that little reliability problem for Leclerc) and still they were not serious contenders for most of the rest of the season. So let´s wait and see.
     
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  4. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    This had to be expected. No car is the best for ever, and no team keeps winning all the time.

    But Mercedes had very good innings in the last 7 years, so no surprise if they start declining.

    But as long as they stay in the game, I wouldn't rule them out.
     
  5. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    That was when Ferrari was using the illegal engine.
     
  6. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    +1 - they will compete Mercedes will. We want this!
     
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  8. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    Illegal or not, it wasn´t competitive for most of the season.

    Also, who do you know if the Honda is legal now?
     
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  9. PerKr

    PerKr Formula Junior

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    Per Kristoffersson
    RedBull definitely had the best car this weekend. Seems the slight changes to the regulations along with Honda's new engine was what they needed. They weren't that far off the pace of Mercedes last year anyhow, certainly no more than Mercedes were off RB's pace in Bahrain. We'll see how the season progresses, personally I hope the W12 is better suited for the remaining tracks or that Mercedes' engineers can make it so. As much as I like the close racing, I just don't like Verstappen plus I love seeing the frustration of the LH44 detractors.
     
  10. DF1

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  11. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    In the early parts of 2019 it was THE class leading engine.
    Then after a technical rule changed, that same engine became an also ran (whereas no other F1 engine changed its pace from that same rule change.)
     
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  13. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mercedes: Switch to high-rake concept would write off F1 2021 campaign
    By: Jonathan Noble
    Apr 2, 2021, 4:45 AM
    Mercedes says switching its car to a high-rake concept this year to overcome downforce losses would make the 2021 Formula 1 season a 'write-off'.

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mercedes-switch-to-high-rake-concept-would-write-off-f1-2021-campaign/6041161/

    The German manufacturer suspects that F1’s new aero rules have hurt the low-rake cars much more than their high-rake rivals.

    Customer team Aston Martin, which also runs a low-rake car, thinks that the performance swing due to the floor changes is as much as one-second per lap.

    While there is some scope for both Mercedes and Aston Martin to run the rear of their cars slightly higher to recover some of the downforce losses, doing so to the extremes that a team like Red Bull does is impossible.


    Not only would that require an all-new rear suspension set-up, something that is not allowed under the current rules, but it would also force both outfits to start their aero platforms from scratch.

    Mercedes trackside engineering chief Andrew Shovlin said many months of work would then be required to even get back to current downforce levels, by which stage the championship would be long lost.

    "We've got a car that could win a championship if we make some clever decisions with it, do some good work with it and operate well over the year," he explained.

    "But whether or not it's high-rake or low-rake, we can't do anything about that now. What we certainly can't do is suddenly say we're going to lift the rear of our car 30mm and work with that, because that would write off the season. We would lose so much in doing that - to recover it, it's just not practical."
     
  14. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  15. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Moderator
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    375+ likes this.
  16. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    stavura, furoni, 375+ and 2 others like this.
  17. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    yap, i feel so sorry for them, poor guys, always fighting others with a crap car, what would be of them without elton's talent....sniff
     
  18. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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  19. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Who said F1 technology was too complicated and would never be relevent to road cars ?
     
  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    Well, it is a small aspect of the current F1 tech in automotive cars.

    A full current F1 PU is still in a million plus dollar hypercar.
     
  21. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    Undoubtedly interesting technically but frankly it makes you vibrate?
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    This is simply an electric turbocharger that feeds of the main battery/motor rather than electricity generated from actual exhaust gases to charge/spin the turbo.
     
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  23. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Red Bull signs five more Mercedes F1 engine staff
    By: Jonathan Noble
    May 6, 2021, 5:41 AM
    Red Bull has signed five more senior Mercedes engine staff to help drive forward its new power unit push in Formula 1.

    Just weeks after the Milton Keynes-based team announced that it had signed Mercedes' head of mechanical engineering Ben Hodgkinson as its new technical director, more personnel have been confirmed as moving from the German manufacturer to Red Bull.

    Mercedes' head of manufacturing Steve Blewett is to become Red Bull's power unit production director.

    Omid Mostaghimi, who is Mercedes' F1 electronics team leader, will be Red Bull's head of powertrains, electronics and ERS.

    Pip Clode, who is Mercedes' F1 power unit concept team leader, is to become Red Bull's head of mechanical design ERS.

    Anton Mayo, a Mercedes engineering team leader, will be head of power unit design ICE, while Steve Brodie, Mercedes' F1 trackside and final inspection manager, will become Red Bull's Group Leader ICE Operations.

    The team has also said it will soon appoint a new Head of Mechanical Development, whose name will be announced in the coming weeks.

    Red Bull team principal and powertrains CEO Christian Horner said: "Red Bull's mission to bring all aspects of its Formula 1 operations in-house through Red Bull Powertrains is an enormously exciting undertaking but also an extremely demanding one, and we know that success will only be achieved by bringing in the best and brightest talent, by providing them with the right tools and by creating the right environment in which they can thrive.

    "Today's key leadership team appointments demonstrate our strong commitment to those goals and we certainly benefit from our campus being located in the UK where we have access to a huge wealth of engineering talent.

    "Working with our new technical director, Ben Hodgkinson, and alongside key personnel retained from Honda Racing Development, each of the senior personnel announced today bring a wealth of experience, expertise and innovation to the Red Bull Powertrains programme and provide us with the strongest possible technical platform for the future."


    Red Bull is constructing a state-of-the-art engine facility at its Milton Keynes campus for its new project.

    While it is taking over the Honda engines from next year, it has been clear that it will work on a new power unit for 2025, when new regulations are due to come in.

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    Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes W12, battles with Max Verstappen, Red Bull Racing RB16B

    Photo by: Charles Coates / Motorsport Images

    The capture by Red Bull of key Mercedes staff will not be ideal for the German manufacturer, but its F1 team boss Toto Wolff said recently he was not worried about needing to ramp up wages in a bid to stave off personnel being lured away.

    "We will lose some, we will win some," he said. "But at the end of the day, I believe in the philosophy of Mercedes, and I believe that we are a really good employer.

    "It's a place where there's high pressure, but there's also a lot of fun. We can be proud of that and we have to rely on that.

    "There will always be a back and forth. But let's put it this way, I understand where Christian is coming from, he wants to build a structure and that's where you have to write a big cheque sometimes. But that's okay."
     
  24. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    Talking about the Red Bull offensive on their engine specialists, Toto Wolff said that more than 900 people are currently working in this department alone.:D
    We are close to the 2000 people totally involved in the Mercedes formula one project, far from the 1150 officially declared..
     
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  25. sp1der

    sp1der Formula 3
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    Will just be booking jobs to ineos even though they are working on f1
     
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  26. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
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    I had the same reaction when I heard him speak.

    900 people to make 6 power units a year!
     
  27. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
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    Or Mercedes R&D.
     
  28. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

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    Remember Dominicali saying during the winter test pre season 2014 (!) :
    « How do you want us to compete with the Mercedes engine? They have 200 engineers on this project while we have ten times less.. »
    What a leader !
     
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